User:Badmachine/wikipedia-en-2011-12-09
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Session Start: Fri Dec 09 10:32:39 2011
Session Ident: #wikipedia-en
�03[10:32] * Now talking in #wikipedia-en
�03[10:32] * Topic is 'English Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/ | Status: Up (http://status.wikimedia.org/) | Channel guidelines: http://bit.ly/WP-IRC | Channel operator: Ask in #wikimedia-ops or say !ops <request...> | For urgent admin help, say !admin <request...> | No public logging | Cloak requests: http://bit.ly/IRCcloaks | ArbCom voting closes on 10 December: http://bit.ly/WPAC11�'
�03[10:32] * Set by Gfoley4!~Gfoley4@wikipedia/Gfoley4 on Thu Dec 08 20:42:06
[10:32] #wikipedia-en url is http://en.wikipedia.org/
�03[10:33] * IShadowed (~IShadowed@pool-98-117-23-26.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net) has joined #wikipedia-en
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�12[10:34] -ChanServ- Entry Nickname/Host Flags
�12[10:34] -ChanServ- ----- ---------------------- -----
�12[10:34] -ChanServ- 1 sparc +votriRA (OP) [modified 2 years, 35 weeks, 3 days, 00:25:42 ago]
�12[10:34] -ChanServ- 2 RonG +votsriRfAF [modified ? ago]
�12[10:34] -ChanServ- 3 LeoNerd +votriRA (OP) [modified 2 years, 35 weeks, 3 days, 00:25:07 ago]
�12[10:34] -ChanServ- 4 Gary +votriRA (OP) [modified 2 years, 35 weeks, 3 days, 00:25:18 ago]
�12[10:34] -ChanServ- 5 nicktastic +votriRA (OP) [modified 2 years, 35 weeks, 3 days, 00:26:03 ago]
�12[10:34] -ChanServ- 6 Sugadude +votriRA (OP) [modified 2 years, 35 weeks, 3 days, 00:24:57 ago]
�12[10:34] -ChanServ- 7 *!*@freenode/staff/* +votiA [modified 2 years, 35 weeks, 3 days, 00:17:18 ago]
�12[10:34] -ChanServ- 8 *!*@* +t [modified 1 year, 44 weeks, 4 days, 13:18:39 ago]
�12[10:34] -ChanServ- 9 EulerLiar +votriRA (OP) [modified 19 weeks, 4 days, 12:51:35 ago]
�12[10:34] -ChanServ- 10 Aryk +votriRA (OP) [modified 15 weeks, 4 days, 10:45:08 ago]
�12[10:34] -ChanServ- 11 Moof +votriRA (OP) [modified 10 weeks, 0 days, 17:20:09 ago]
�12[10:34] -ChanServ- 12 petard +votriRA (OP) [modified 10 weeks, 0 days, 17:20:02 ago]
�12[10:34] -ChanServ- 13 slashtom +votriRA (OP) [modified 10 weeks, 0 days, 17:19:28 ago]
�12[10:34] -ChanServ- ----- ---------------------- -----
�12[10:34] -ChanServ- End of �#gaygeeks-asl� FLAGS listing.
�03[10:34] * Grashoofd (~chatzilla@s5146a456.adsl.wanadoo.nl) has joined #wikipedia-en
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�03[10:36] * tdubellz_ (tdubellz@freenode/staff/tdubellz) has joined #wikipedia-en
[10:37] <PiRSquared17> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKQbrqikdjI&feature=related
�15[10:37] * fennec (~fennec@wikipedia/Fennec) Quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep�)
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�03[10:39] * Johnlong (~johnlong@e178090081.adsl.alicedsl.de) has joined #wikipedia-en
[10:39] <tommorris> Ironholds: enjoy, 2011112410038089
[10:40] <tommorris> Ironholds: chek who it is *from*.
Session Close: Fri Dec 09 10:42:19 2011
Session Start: Fri Dec 09 10:42:19 2011
Session Ident: #wikipedia-en
�11[10:42] * Disconnected
Session Close: Fri Dec 09 10:42:20 2011
Session Start: Fri Dec 09 17:26:47 2011
Session Ident: #wikipedia-en
�03[17:26] * Now talking in #wikipedia-en
�03[17:26] * Topic is 'English Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/ | Status: Up (http://status.wikimedia.org/) | Channel guidelines: http://bit.ly/WP-IRC | Channel operator: Ask in #wikimedia-ops or say !ops <request...> | For urgent admin help, say !admin <request...> | No public logging | Cloak requests: http://bit.ly/IRCcloaks | ArbCom voting closes on 10 December: http://bit.ly/WPAC11�'
�03[17:26] * Set by Gfoley4!~Gfoley4@wikipedia/Gfoley4 on Thu Dec 08 20:42:06
[17:26] #wikipedia-en url is http://en.wikipedia.org/
�12[17:26] -ChanServ- [#wikipedia-fr] Canal en UTF-8. La diffusion publique de journaux de ce canal est interdite. Merci de lire http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Canal_IRC et de contribuer à la bonne humeur du canal. Bonne journée !
�03[17:27] * Daley (~Daley@210.1.192.84) has joined #wikipedia-en
[17:28] <tommorris> heh, am on train. man opposite is reading a print-out of [[Richard II of England]].
[17:28] <RichyRich> You say that now Peter...
�06[17:29] * tommorris could give him a Wikipedia sticker
[17:29] <RichyRich> But when you get to 29, it getsd very hard to hink of morenames.
[17:29] <RichyRich> And Castle will be just sittignthere waiting to be chosen
�08[17:29] * derp gives Peter-C a sticker book.
�06[17:29] * tommorris is just reading ANI instead.
�06[17:29] * RichyRich is editing instead...
�08[17:30] * derp is crapflooding another network :P
�03[17:31] * ChanServ sets mode: +o eir
�03[17:32] * eir sets mode: -qo *!18e5668a@gateway/* eir
�15[17:33] * Ks0stm (~Ks0stm@wikipedia/Ks0stm) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds�)
�15[17:34] * RichyRich (~chatzilla@81-178-156-170.dsl.pipex.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds�)
�15[17:37] * Resfirestar (~sam@wikipedia/Res2216firestar) Quit (Quit: Leaving�)
�03[17:39] * Thorncrag (~Thorncrag@wikimedia/Thorncrag) has joined #wikipedia-en
[17:39] <Tannerbaum> Thorncrag: o/
[17:40] <Thorncrag> whatever it was, I didn't do it!
�03[17:40] * kim_bruning (~kim@bruning.xs4all.nl) has joined #wikipedia-en
�03[17:41] * Richard (~chatzilla@81-178-156-170.dsl.pipex.com) has joined #wikipedia-en
�03[17:41] * Richard is now known as Guest87522
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Session Close: Fri Dec 09 17:46:31 2011
Session Start: Fri Dec 09 17:46:31 2011
Session Ident: #wikipedia-en
�11[17:46] * Disconnected
Session Close: Fri Dec 09 17:46:44 2011
Session Start: Fri Dec 09 17:52:44 2011
Session Ident: #wikipedia-en
�03[17:52] * Now talking in #wikipedia-en
�03[17:52] * Topic is 'English Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/ | Status: Up (http://status.wikimedia.org/) | Channel guidelines: http://bit.ly/WP-IRC | Channel operator: Ask in #wikimedia-ops or say !ops <request...> | For urgent admin help, say !admin <request...> | No public logging | Cloak requests: http://bit.ly/IRCcloaks | ArbCom voting closes on 10 December: http://bit.ly/WPAC11�'
�03[17:52] * Set by Gfoley4!~Gfoley4@wikipedia/Gfoley4 on Thu Dec 08 20:42:06
[17:52] #wikipedia-en url is http://en.wikipedia.org/
[17:52] <Logan_> Propaganda.
[17:52] <tommorris> of course, the UK has much more awesome domains
[17:53] <tommorris> like bl.uk
[17:53] <tommorris> and nhs.uk
[17:53] <tommorris> and police.uk
[17:53] <Logan_> Bluk?
[17:53] <ToAruShiroiNeko> !
[17:53] <tommorris> Logan_: British Library
[17:53] <Logan_> Ah.
[17:53] <kim_bruning> there aren't any new schwag people?
[17:53] <kim_bruning> yuk.yuk.y.uk ?
[17:53] <ToAruShiroiNeko> y.uk
�03[17:53] * TParis (~TParis@cpe-70-114-38-28.satx.res.rr.com) has joined #wikipedia-en
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[17:53] <ToAruShiroiNeko> s.uk
�03[17:53] * Maryana (~justdandy@216.38.130.167) has joined #wikipedia-en
[17:53] <tommorris> kim_bruning: Foundation has been attempting to hire a merchandising manager for a while
[17:53] <kim_bruning> not much you can do with nl
[17:54] <ToAruShiroiNeko> kim_bruning I disagree
[17:54] <kim_bruning> "mewchandizing mewchandizing mewchandizing, where the REAL money from the movie^Wwiki is made"
[17:54] <kim_bruning> I wonder what wikipe-tan merchandise would make on the open market?
[17:54] <kim_bruning> :-P
�06[17:54] * tommorris takes an active interest in the foundation getting merchandising sorted out given the number of emails OTRS gets saying "why can't I buy an X instead of donating?"
�06[17:54] * tommorris gave the guy a sticker
�03[17:54] * ZT (~pjeterper@46.12.3.190.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr) has joined #wikipedia-en
[17:55] <ToAruShiroiNeko> http://www.morewords.com/ends-with/nl/
[17:55] <ToAruShiroiNeko> huh...
[17:55] <ToAruShiroiNeko> kim_bruning depends
[17:55] <ToAruShiroiNeko> would you market her nude or nude?
[17:55] <kim_bruning> I'm not sure she's over 18
[17:55] <kim_bruning> so probably not a good idea :-P
[17:56] <ToAruShiroiNeko> market in japan then
[17:56] <kim_bruning> knowing japan + rule 34, that prolly already happened ^^;;
[17:56] <ToAruShiroiNeko> when in doubt, market in japan
[17:56] <kim_bruning> If so, I do NOT want to know
[17:56] <tommorris> oh god, used Wikipe-tan underwear dispensers.
[17:56] <kim_bruning> I'm not sure that exists :-P
[17:56] <ToAruShiroiNeko> tommorris uh no
[17:56] <ToAruShiroiNeko> wikipe-tan dildos
[17:57] <tommorris> so wrong, but if it works... so right.
�15[17:57] * ZT (~pjeterper@46.12.3.190.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr) Quit (Changing host�)
�03[17:57] * ZT (~pjeterper@unaffiliated/zt) has joined #wikipedia-en
[17:57] <ToAruShiroiNeko> "profits from this vending machine will go to wikipedia"
[17:57] <tommorris> Spreading free knowledge to the world, one giant pulsating Wikipe-tan dildo at a time.
�03[17:57] * MisterAnderson (~brasidias@user-49fdc4.user.msu.edu) has joined #wikipedia-en
[17:58] <ToAruShiroiNeko> trick is make the dildos with a fixed battery
�15[17:58] * crazynas (ae19b4f5@wikipedia/crazynas) Quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds�)
�15[17:58] * Mitchazenia (richardpet@ool-435715bc.dyn.optonline.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds�)
[17:58] <MisterAnderson> Hi can someone help me with an account removal?
�03[17:58] * MBisanz (~MBisanz@c-69-255-116-4.hsd1.dc.comcast.net) has joined #wikipedia-en
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�15[17:58] * russavia (~russavia@wikimedia/Russavia) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer�)
[17:58] <ZT> what exactly are you trying to do?
�03[17:58] * Ks0stm (~Ks0stm@wikipedia/Ks0stm) has joined #wikipedia-en
[17:59] <ToAruShiroiNeko> take over the world
[17:59] <Qcoder00> tommorris: Is it possible to get a wiki cushion?
[18:00] <ToAruShiroiNeko> http://www.morewords.com/ends-with/uk/
[18:00] <ToAruShiroiNeko> pado.uk
[18:00] <MisterAnderson> zt: I created an account using my real name and it's not visible now but when I google search my name askaword.com shows up and has the old username page shown
�03[18:00] * Mitchazenia (richardpet@ool-435715bc.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #wikipedia-en
�08[18:01] <derp> MisterAnderson, we can't really help you with search engines
[18:01] <MisterAnderson> I created it as a joke like 5 years ago when I was in high school and when my buddy searched my name it showed up
�15[18:01] * the_metalgamer (~the_metal@31.172.148.111) Quit (Quit: Verlassend�)
�08[18:02] <derp> I can sugges to get a rename
[18:02] <MisterAnderson> derp: I know that when I was editing a user renamed his account and then blanked it, I want to see if my name shows up in wikipedia anywhere and then rename it
�08[18:02] <derp> as for mirroring or search engines, we can,t really help you..
[18:02] <MisterAnderson> derp: Yeah can I PM you?
�08[18:02] <derp> That you have to ask a bureaucrat
�08[18:02] <derp> sure go ask
�15[18:02] * bep (~britishen@reddit/operator/bep) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds�)
[18:03] <MisterAnderson> oh ok, how do I contact a bureaucrat?
�03[18:03] * gde33 (kvirc@546A1A51.cm-12-3a.dynamic.ziggo.nl) has joined #wikipedia-en
�08[18:03] <derp> [[Special:Email/Bureaucrat]]
�03[18:04] * D1000|Away is now known as Demiurge1000
[18:04] <TParis> Does anyone know anything about Pakistan's caste system?
�15[18:05] * Daley (~Daley@210.1.192.84) Quit
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[18:06] <MisterAnderson> TParis: What do you want to know?
[18:06] <TParis> Is this article full of shit? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chowz
[18:06] <TParis> ie: is it a hoax?
[18:07] <ZT> Unless he means the "Quoms" yes it is a hoax
[18:08] <MisterAnderson> TParis: Choudry and Jatt already have articles and I have never heard "Chowz" used as a nickname
[18:08] <TParis> Chowz isnt short for Choudry?
[18:08] <TParis> Would a redirect to Choudry not make sense?
[18:09] <MisterAnderson> TParis: that sounds like a rap name or something
[18:09] <MisterAnderson> TParis: Choudhury or Choudry if you want to make a redirect
[18:10] <kim_bruning> I found choudaryt too
[18:10] <kim_bruning> I just wikified and got blue links all over
[18:10] <juancarlos> thank you kindly
[18:10] <kim_bruning> which usually isn't too bad a sign
[18:11] <kim_bruning> if there's any new info, maybe snarf it, else leave it?:-)
[18:11] <juancarlos> what? wikifying words means nothing
�03[18:11] * A7mad (5266fe9f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.102.254.159) has joined #wikipedia-en
[18:11] <juancarlos> You need real terms to define something made up ;-)
[18:11] <TParis> I redirected it to Jatt
[18:11] <kim_bruning> juancarlos, yes, but at least the dude isn't talking too much nonsense
[18:11] <kim_bruning> why to Jatt?
[18:12] <kim_bruning> that doesn't seem to make sense?
[18:12] <TParis> "The word CHOWZ which is short for choudary and also known as Jatt."
[18:12] <kim_bruning> fair enough
[18:12] <kim_bruning> choudary is an existing term too
[18:12] <TParis> The only article on Choudary appeared to be for an Indian caste
[18:12] <TParis> The Jatt article was about a Pakistan cast
[18:12] <MisterAnderson> you guys should see the battles that go on at template:ethnic groups of punjab
[18:12] <TParis> caste*
[18:12] <kim_bruning> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choudary
[18:13] <kim_bruning> oddly, no reference to pakistani castes
[18:13] <TParis> I know, but read the Choudary caste article, it says it's in india
[18:13] <TParis> The Jatt one referred to Pakistan
[18:13] <MisterAnderson> TParis: this caste is from the punjab which was split with the partition of india
[18:13] <TParis> So I redirected there
�15[18:13] * geniice (~chatzilla@wikipedia/geniice) Quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [SeaMonkey 2.5/20111121045514]�)
[18:13] <Lubaf> Red link or Blue link: "Roland the Headless Thompson Gunner"?
�15[18:13] * A7mad (5266fe9f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.102.254.159) Quit (Client Quit�)
[18:13] <TParis> Well I don't pretend to be an expert on south asain caste systems, so please feel free to do what is appropriate.
�15[18:13] * Monchoman45 (433ea2ab@wikia/Monchoman45) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds�)
�03[18:13] * crazynas (ae19b4f5@wikipedia/crazynas) has joined #wikipedia-en
[18:13] <kim_bruning> as much clue as you :-)
[18:14] <crazynas> who has clue?
[18:14] <TParis> Lubaf: The question seems to suggest blue link
[18:14] <juancarlos> cluebot
�15[18:15] * ZT (~pjeterper@unaffiliated/zt) Quit
[18:15] <MisterAnderson> TParis: they are ridiculous and each caste has its own view of the rest of the castes
[18:16] <juancarlos> ty kindly good sirs
�15[18:22] * Jarry1250 (~chatzilla@host-92-18-147-52.as13285.net) Quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 8.0/20111104165243]�)
�15[18:23] * Jeff_G (~Jeff@wikipedia/Jeff-G.) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds�)
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[18:24] <Logan_> hola juancarlos
�03[18:24] * AzaToth_ (~azatoth@wikipedia/AzaToth) has joined #wikipedia-en
�08[18:24] Clones detected from wikipedia/AzaToth:�8 AzaToth AzaToth_
[18:24] <juancarlos> Buenas tardes.
�15[18:25] * AzaToth_ (~azatoth@wikipedia/AzaToth) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer�)
�08[18:25] <derp> hola juancarlos darling <3
�08[18:26] <derp> let us nose-kiss
[18:26] <juancarlos> bonjour derpy
[18:26] <juancarlos> no me toques
�08[18:26] <derp> buenas tardes, mi amor!
[18:29] <Thorncrag> Tannerbaum: oh snap, did not recognize your handle :)
[18:30] <Tannerbaum> Thorncrag: 'tis almost Christmas :P
�03[18:30] * MisterAnderson (~brasidias@user-49fdc4.user.msu.edu) has left #wikipedia-en
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[18:32] <Thorncrag> Tannerbaum: well Merry Chrismas then :D
�15[18:32] * Grashoofd (~chatzilla@s5146a456.adsl.wanadoo.nl) Quit (Remote host closed the connection�)
�03[18:33] * BWilkins (~chatzilla@bas1-jockvale05-3096537227.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #wikipedia-en
[18:33] <Thorncrag> I don't suppose anyone knows about Cider porting… I've been looking at porting Huggle to mac os
�15[18:34] * BWilkins (~chatzilla@bas1-jockvale05-3096537227.dsl.bell.ca) Quit (Changing host�)
�03[18:34] * BWilkins (~chatzilla@Wikimedia/Bwilkins) has joined #wikipedia-en
�15[18:36] * jubo2 (~quassel@178-55-137-186.bb.dnainternet.fi) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds�)
�15[18:36] * jubo2_ (~quassel@178-55-137-186.bb.dnainternet.fi) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds�)
[18:36] <Tannerbaum> Thorncrag: it's *supposed* to be OS X/Linux native in 3.0
[18:36] <BWilkins> Last time I drank that alcoholic Cider stuff, I ported all over the place. Of course, having 5 or 6 wasn't wise to begin with.
�15[18:37] * Qcoder00 (~chatzilla@unaffiliated/qcoder00) Quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 8.0/20111104165243]�)
[18:37] <juancarlos> does ported mean piss in that context?
�03[18:38] * Jeff_G (~Jeff@wikipedia/Jeff-G.) has joined #wikipedia-en
[18:38] <Thorncrag> BWilkins: lol!
�08[18:39] <derp> Thorncrag, i have written a version of Huggle for OS X
[18:39] <TParis> AQ: You around?
[18:39] <Thorncrag> derp: You have? Okay! Is it open source?
[18:39] <BWilkins> Blew chunks ... barfed ... lost my cookies ... prayed to the porcelain altar ... you know, *ported* :-|
[18:39] <Thorncrag> that's a dumb question
�08[18:39] <derp> Thorncrag, of course, but it's so instable, plus i'm in the process of making it Lion compatible
[18:40] <Thorncrag> what I mean is, is the source available
[18:40] <Thorncrag> okay
�08[18:40] <derp> oh, not yet
[18:40] <Thorncrag> no problemo
[18:40] <Thorncrag> as long as someone competent is working on it then I'm happy
�03[18:40] * mabdul|dog is now known as mabdul|busy
[18:41] <Peter-C> Jehovah's Witnesses doen't celebrate CHRISTMAS!
[18:41] <Peter-C> WAR ON CHRISTMAS
[18:41] <Peter-C> GET TO THE SITUATION ROOM PEOPLE!
�08[18:41] <derp> Do they?
�08[18:41] <derp> no shit, Peter-C!
�08[18:41] <derp> way to go Sherlock!
[18:44] <BWilkins> Never a good idea to tell a Jehovah's Witness that you celebrate Hallowe'en either ...
[18:44] <Peter-C> Or birthdays
[18:45] <Peter-C> Actually... I support that :P
[18:45] <BWilkins> Don't celebrate birthdays? For some people it's the only day they get sex
[18:45] <TParis> If Jehovah's Witnesses don't celebrate birthdays, than what day do their wives let them go to the strip club?
[18:45] <BWilkins> With someone else, that is
[18:46] <crazynas> BWilkins: sad state of affairs...
[18:46] <mabdul|busy> can an admin please have a look at https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/MediaWiki_talk:Spam-whitelist#www.infibeam.com ?
[18:46] <BWilkins> Be careful listening to "hit radio" with kids in your car. Last thing you want is your 4 year old singing "Birthday Sex" at the top of their lungs
[18:47] <BWilkins> Sorry mabdul, I'm too insecure to look at a secure version ...
[18:48] <TParis> Mabdul, I'll take care of it
[18:48] <juancarlos> haha
[18:48] <mabdul|busy> TParis: thx
[18:48] <mabdul|busy> BWilkins: lol, change the link by hand :/
[18:48] <BWilkins> Is that what the kids are calling "it" these days?
�06[18:50] * Lubaf idly wonders what "Vampirism as a Service" consists of.
[18:50] <TParis> Mabdul: I take that back. I thought the spam blacklist allowed specific article exemptions like the image blacklist did. I guess it doesnt.
[18:50] <TParis> Stifle would be more qualified to help
�03[18:51] * MoPexams (~MasterofP@mail.bcsmb.ca) has joined #wikipedia-en
[18:51] <Lubaf> Further, I still wonder what Sephiroth Computing would be like.
�15[18:51] * Maryana (~justdandy@216.38.130.167) Quit (Quit: AFK�)
[18:51] <mabdul|busy> TParis: o.O ok thanks. He didn't responded since the 2.11 because of my talkback
[18:51] <juancarlos> omg MOP
[18:51] <MoPexams> [12:48] WilliamH_UK some girl at a party was stroking it ¬_¬
�03[18:51] * MoPexams is now known as MasterofPuppets
[18:51] <BWilkins> Lubaf: most cloud providers already suck the blood out of you for their services, so VaaS makes perfect sense ...
[18:51] <MasterofPuppets> Hey KD
�15[18:51] * MasterofPuppets (~MasterofP@mail.bcsmb.ca) Quit (Changing host�)
�03[18:51] * MasterofPuppets (~MasterofP@Wikipedia/Master-of-Puppets) has joined #wikipedia-en
[18:51] <Lubaf> BWilkins: Fair enough.
[18:52] <TParis> Mabdul: I dont know why it doesnt allow exemptions; you'd think that'd make sense.
[18:52] <TParis> Alpha_Quadrant: You there?
[18:52] <mabdul|busy> yeah. that's really confusing. the devs should have been likely thinking about that
�03[18:53] * Ks0stm is now known as Ks0stm|Away
[18:54] <juancarlos> TParis: There is a whitelist that is separate
�15[18:54] * harej (~chatzilla@wikipedia/MessedRocker) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds�)
�03[18:54] * swarfega is now known as swarfega|away
[18:54] <TParis> Juancarlos: You can't identify exemptions by article.
[18:55] <juancarlos> Can't admins override the spam blacklist?
[18:55] <TParis> No, I tried.
[18:55] <TParis> That would make sense too
[18:56] <Alpha_Quadrant> TParis: yes?
[18:56] <TParis> AQ: Did I do this right? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_creation/Afaria
[18:56] <TParis> See my talk page too
[18:59] <Alpha_Quadrant> TParis: ok, I added the username, timestamp, and namespace http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk%3AArticles_for_creation%2FAfaria&action=historysubmit&diff=465040501&oldid=465037961
[18:59] <Alpha_Quadrant> TParis: you did it right
[18:59] <Alpha_Quadrant> not adding that information should get fixed by a bot
�03[18:59] * slon02 (6c102366@wikipedia/slon02) has joined #wikipedia-en
�15[19:02] * BewareofDoug (~Doug__@wikipedia/Doug) Quit (Quit: BewareofDoug�)
�15[19:04] * Queen (~Ty@wikia/ZamorakO-o) Quit (Quit: We are Wikipedia, we are legion, here, have some wikilove, come help us edit?�)
[19:13] <TParis> AQ: Thanks. I changed the user to the one requesting I restore it
[19:14] <Alpha_Quadrant> ok, glad to help
�03[19:16] * CMBJ (cf770661@gateway/web/freenode/ip.207.119.6.97) has joined #wikipedia-en
[19:18] <Peter-C> HOLY BALL SACK CRAPPERS
[19:18] <Peter-C> My mailman is on my Facebook
[19:18] <CMBJ> Has anyone here still not yet completed the Berkman Center study? I'm looking to get a screenshot of the introductory page, if possible.
�03[19:18] * Maryana (~justdandy@126.sub-174-253-245.myvzw.com) has joined #wikipedia-en
�15[19:18] * closedmouth (mouthy@wikipedia/closedmouth) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer�)
�15[19:18] * Jeff_G (~Jeff@wikipedia/Jeff-G.) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer�)
�03[19:18] * Resfirestar (~sam@wikipedia/Res2216firestar) has joined #wikipedia-en
�03[19:19] * closedmouth (mouthy@wikipedia/closedmouth) has joined #wikipedia-en
[19:20] <BWilkins> Your freaking mailman? I don't even know my mailindividual's name!
�08[19:21] <derp> BWilkins, same.
[19:21] <BWilkins> Granted, my mailindividual is more like "Pat" from 1990's Saturday Night Live ... so maybe her/his name is Pat
�08[19:21] <derp> my mailman's a woman.
[19:23] <BWilkins> Reminds me of a Jeff Foxworthy bit ... apparently his uncle wrote "male" on their mailbox instead of "mail". Foxworthy spent his growing years wondering if there wasn't supposed to be a capital on "Male"
[19:24] <kim_bruning> "postman pat, postman pat, postman pat and his black and white cat"
�15[19:24] * MBisanz (~MBisanz@wikipedia/MBisanz) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer�)
[19:25] <kim_bruning> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiFNt8nGffA
�15[19:25] * RichyRichRich (~chatzilla@81-178-156-170.dsl.pipex.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds�)
�15[19:26] * lebit (~nyan@unaffiliated/codebit) Quit (Quit: Leaving�)
[19:26] <u_abusebeercans> CMBJ, still waiting for my money.
�03[19:27] * lebit (~nyan@unaffiliated/codebit) has joined #wikipedia-en
�03[19:28] * Sir48 (~Sir48@2.108.96.96) has joined #wikipedia-en
[19:28] <zscout370> CMBJ, I am still waiting for my 25 bucks
[19:28] <crazynas> CMBJ: ?
�03[19:28] * SigmaWP (~coalball@wikipedia/Lowercase-Sigma) has joined #wikipedia-en
[19:29] <kim_bruning> night!
�15[19:29] * kim_bruning (~kim@bruning.xs4all.nl) Quit (Quit: Leaving�)
[19:30] <CMBJ> crazynas: I'm just looking to get a screenshot of details provided on the introductory page(s). I completed my instance already, so I cannot go back to review it.
[19:31] <u_abusebeercans> CMBJ, have you ever had your username changed?
[19:32] <u_abusebeercans> if so, login under a previous name, and take the thing.
[19:32] <u_abusebeercans> i know it works on VMs, don't know about hosts.
[19:32] <SigmaWP> u_abusebeercans: No Fluttershy-EN?
�06[19:32] * Betacommand is jealous of the toolserver's bandwidth
�03[19:32] * u_abusebeercans is now known as Fluttershy-ENG
[19:33] <SigmaWP> Good coal balls
[19:33] <SigmaWP> methecooldude: Thanks! :D
[19:33] <Fluttershy-ENG> dat bandwidth. *sunglasses*
[19:33] <CMBJ> u_abusebeercans: No, but the study was only open to a select subset of users; it is not necessarily available on all accounts.
[19:33] <Betacommand> 10 megabytes per second continuous download ......
[19:34] <Fluttershy-ENG> your previous nick will most likely be within the subset.
[19:34] <Betacommand> On a really good day I only reach 1.1mb
[19:34] <Fluttershy-ENG> if you been around long.
[19:35] <Fluttershy-ENG> heck, I've only been a registered user for a year now.
[19:35] <Betacommand> wtf... it just hit 20mb/s
�08[19:36] <derp> The internet is a scary place. We are here to keep you safe.
[19:36] <Fluttershy-ENG> ^ bull
[19:36] <Betacommand> Fluttershy-ENG: who are you talking to?
�03[19:36] * crackfu (~crack@adsl-108-78-206-101.dsl.snantx.sbcglobal.net) has joined #wikipedia-en
[19:37] <Fluttershy-ENG> Buddha
�03[19:37] * SigmaWP (~coalball@wikipedia/Lowercase-Sigma) has left #wikipedia-en ("Bach in a minuet"�)
�03[19:38] * SigmaWP (~coalball@wikipedia/Lowercase-Sigma) has joined #wikipedia-en
[19:38] <SigmaWP> Alpha_Quadrant: Torpedo tubes ready.
�15[19:39] * Ironholds (~bob@wikipedia/Ironholds) Quit (Quit: connection reset by peerage�)
�06[19:40] * SigmaWP pokes Fluttershy-ENG
[19:40] <methecooldude> Ladys and Gentleman! ClueBot NG is BACK!
�06[19:41] * SigmaWP applauds
�03[19:42] * crackfu (~crack@adsl-108-78-206-101.dsl.snantx.sbcglobal.net) has left #wikipedia-en ("Leaving"�)
�03[19:42] * JeffG|PidginAuto (~Jeff@wikipedia/Jeff-G.) has joined #wikipedia-en
[19:42] <WilliamH_UK> bravo
�03[19:42] * JeffG|PidginAuto is now known as Jeff_G
�03[19:43] * Queen (~Ty@wikia/ZamorakO-o) has joined #wikipedia-en
�15[19:44] * juancarlos (4c0e8e60@wikimedia/Killiondude) Quit (Quit: Page closed�)
�15[19:45] * Iamred (~Iamred@cpc1-chms1-0-0-cust94.basl.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Quit: G'bai.�)
[19:46] <Fluttershy-ENG> ok
�06[19:48] * crazynas waves at Cluebot NG
�03[19:48] * Moe_Epsilon (~David@wikipedia/Moe-Epsilon) has joined #wikipedia-en
[19:48] <SigmaWP> methecooldude: Ping
[19:49] <SigmaWP> methecooldude: Can I help review the bot's dataset?
[19:50] <methecooldude> SigmaWP: Of course you can, pop your name down on my talk page and I'll e-mail you and everyone else who wants to help as soon as we get the interfaces working again :)
[19:50] <petan> they are
[19:50] <petan> :D
[19:50] <crazynas> so when citing an AP article is the author "Associated press"?
[19:50] <SigmaWP> :D
[19:50] <petan> methecooldude: we are fixing firewall now in 10 minute interface will be at http://bots.wmflabs.org/~damian/cluebotng-report/
[19:51] <methecooldude> petan: Ok, I'll edit the DNS to refect that
[19:51] <petan> it may change in future
[19:51] <petan> we don't know yet where it's going to be
[19:51] <petan> maybe vhost could be used too
[19:51] <methecooldude> petan: Well, just let me know
�15[19:51] * DarkoNeko (~udontcare@wikipedia/darkoneko) Quit (Read error: No route to host�)
[19:51] <petan> ok
�06[19:51] * SigmaWP pokes Fluttershy-ENG
[19:52] <petan> http://nagios.wmflabs.org/cgi-bin/nagios3/status.cgi?host=all :P
[19:52] <crazynas> methecooldude: is it the interface at http://cluebotreview.g.cluenet.org/ ?
[19:52] <methecooldude> crazynas: That's the review interface yes, but it's no good without the report one
�03[19:53] * Maid (~Ty@wikia/ZamorakO-o) has joined #wikipedia-en
�08[19:53] Clones detected from wikia/ZamorakO-o:�8 Maid Queen
�15[19:53] * Queen (~Ty@wikia/ZamorakO-o) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer�)
[19:54] <methecooldude> petan: If I cname report.cluebot.cluenet.org > bots.wmflabs.org can you configure Apache to send requests to the right place?
[19:54] <crazynas> methecooldude: petan real question is that going to matter when things get transfered or will it stay the same (is it pointless to work there now)
[19:54] <petan> maybe
[19:55] <petan> I would rather say yes, depends if userdir would be used or not
[19:55] <petan> we want to mount another storage there so it would likely be possible
[19:55] <petan> because we would use it instead of userdir
[19:56] <Fluttershy-ENG> okk
[19:56] <petan> you shouldn't believe me though it's 2 am here and I am tired :)
�06[19:56] * SigmaWP nudges Fluttershy-ENG
�15[19:57] * mabdul|busy (~mabdul@wikipedia/mabdul) Quit (Quit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-64CaD8GXw�)
�03[19:59] * lays84 (~lays84@gateway/tor-sasl/lays84) has joined #wikipedia-en
�03[19:59] * Sp33dyphil (1b209a83@wikipedia/Sp33dyphil) has joined #wikipedia-en
[20:00] <petan> methecooldude: I can set a vhost for you
�15[20:00] * lays84 (~lays84@gateway/tor-sasl/lays84) Quit (Client Quit�)
[20:00] <petan> on apache if you want
�15[20:00] * BWilkins (~chatzilla@Wikimedia/Bwilkins) Quit (Quit: See ya�)
[20:00] <petan> actually I can set even dns record
�06[20:00] * Sp33dyphil waves to SigmaWP, Demiurge1000, LauraHale and Maryana
[20:01] <LauraHale> Hello Sp33dyphil
[20:01] <TParis> rude...
[20:01] <petan> cluebot.wmflabs.org
[20:01] <petan> what about that
[20:01] <Demiurge1000> Sp33dyphil: yes, hello
�06[20:01] * Maryana waves back
[20:01] <Sp33dyphil> hey Laura, how's it going?
�06[20:01] * Sp33dyphil smiles
[20:01] <petan> Maryana: trial is done
[20:01] <Maryana> w00t!
[20:01] <SigmaWP> Sp33dyphil: Hello :D
[20:01] <petan> damn I am tired heh
[20:01] <Maryana> does that mean we can go ahead with the actual test
[20:01] <petan> dunno
[20:01] <Maryana> oh man, it's like 5 a.m. where you are, petan!
[20:01] <petan> you need to speak to bag
[20:01] <Maryana> go to bed!
[20:01] <Maryana> ok
[20:01] <petan> 2 am
[20:01] <petan> :)
[20:02] <Maryana> still!
[20:02] <petan> it's still ok
[20:02] <petan> :D
[20:02] <Sp33dyphil> petan: do u mind telling me what this test business is?
[20:02] <Maryana> your brain needs rest
[20:02] <petan> I am sorting out little issue with Ryan
[20:02] <LauraHale> Sp33dyphil: Going well. :)
[20:02] <petan> http://nagios.wmflabs.org/cgi-bin/nagios3/status.cgi?host=all
[20:02] <petan> little :)
[20:02] <LauraHale> I have something that might be workable for the MilHist newsletter.
[20:02] <Sp33dyphil> good to hear
[20:02] <LauraHale> Or as a general guide to put on MilHist space.
[20:02] <Maryana> sp33dyphil: we want to see if archiving shared ip talk pages helps keep newbies from getting scared away from wp
[20:03] <Maryana> b/c right now, somebody opens wikipedia at a coffee shop, see the note that says they have new messages, and open up a huge scary wall of warnings
[20:03] <Sp33dyphil> yeah, that's happened to me at school
[20:04] <Maryana> me too
[20:04] <Maryana> it sucks! and that's how a lot of people first get introduced to the community side of wp
[20:04] <petan> heh
[20:04] <Maryana> so petan built a bot to archive those talk pages regularly
[20:05] <Sp33dyphil> Maryana: look on the bright side -- at least it gets them curious
[20:05] <petan> my bot can clean that :) in 2 days
[20:05] <petan> on labs in 1 day
[20:05] <Sp33dyphil> Petan: can you modify your bot to perform this particular task?
[20:05] <Maryana> i still think we should do a 1-day archiving test
[20:05] <petan> huh
[20:05] <Maryana> but some people grumbled.
�15[20:06] * Jayflux (~jay_knows@cpc1-dudl6-0-0-cust1981.wolv.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Quit: (� www.nnscript.com ::� NoNameScript 4.22 ::� www.�esnation.com� )��)
[20:06] <Sp33dyphil> petan: Can you make it use Reflinks on articles that are tagged with {{Cleanup link-rot}}?
[20:06] <petan> probably
[20:07] <petan> it's late here I can't think properly, send me a message please :)
[20:07] <Sp33dyphil> there are about 20,000 of them, last time i checked
[20:07] <petan> User_talk:Petrb
[20:07] <petan> I'd be happy to fix it
[20:07] <Sp33dyphil> nah, talk to you in eight hours
�06[20:08] * Sp33dyphil thinks he's addicted to Wikipedia
[20:08] <Sp33dyphil> I don't have a life lol
[20:08] <petan> heh
[20:08] <Maryana> haha, you think you're bad off, sp33dyphil?
[20:08] <Maryana> i work for wikipedia, and then i go home and edit wikipedia
[20:08] <Maryana> :)
[20:08] <Sp33dyphil> life was good until February 2010, when I joined
[20:09] <Sp33dyphil> hahaha
[20:09] <petan> when I get fired because I spend all time on wikipedia I will apply for a job in wmf XD
[20:09] <Maryana> hehe
�06[20:09] * crazynas thought he got away but got drawn back
[20:09] <Sp33dyphil> Maryana: what job do you do for WMF
[20:09] <Sp33dyphil> ?
[20:10] <Maryana> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Maryana_(WMF)
[20:10] <petan> works http://bots.wmflabs.org/~damian
[20:10] <petan> methecooldude ^
�06[20:11] * Maryana is drafting test templates as we speak
�03[20:13] * Mifter (~chatzilla@Wikimedia/Mifter) has joined #wikipedia-en
[20:14] <Mifter> Hey everyone
[20:14] <Sp33dyphil> hey Mifter
[20:16] <WilliamH_UK> hi
�03[20:20] * derpyfoo (~no@unaffiliated/d-e-r-p/x-3722634) has joined #wikipedia-en
�03[20:22] * BarkingFish (~BarkingIn@openglobe/BarkingFish) has joined #wikipedia-en
[20:23] <Sp33dyphil> hello BarkingFish
[20:23] <BarkingFish> morning Sp33dyphil
�15[20:23] * peteforsyth (~peteforsy@wikipedia/peteforsyth) Quit (Quit: peteforsyth�)
[20:23] <Lubaf> Anybody care to figure out what Sephiroth Computing would be like?
�06[20:23] * Sp33dyphil hits everyone with a gavel -- TALK!
�03[20:24] * Resfirestar_ (~sam@wikipedia/Res2216firestar) has joined #wikipedia-en
�08[20:24] Clones detected from wikipedia/Res2216firestar:�8 Resfirestar Resfirestar_
�06[20:24] * crazynas hits Sp33dyphil back
[20:24] <Lubaf> Besides killing off Aeris Computing, of course.
�06[20:24] * Sp33dyphil hits crazynas particularly hard
�06[20:24] * BarkingFish has had a bloody good night and is now thoroughly plastered
�06[20:25] * Sp33dyphil pings SigmaWP
�06[20:25] * SigmaWP pongs Sp33dyphil
[20:25] <crazynas> any idea on referencing old newspaper clippings that don't have authors/dates on them?
[20:25] <BarkingFish> For the first time in about 2 years, I have been well and truly out on the piss tonight, and totally enjoyed myself :)
[20:25] <Sp33dyphil> wasup with you today? ur normally the most talkative in the room
�03[20:25] * YE (~chatzilla@ip70-189-176-107.lv.lv.cox.net) has joined #wikipedia-en
[20:26] <SigmaWP> Eh
[20:26] <SigmaWP> Just doing other stuff
[20:26] <Sp33dyphil> crazynas; how old is the paper?
[20:26] <crazynas> Sp33dyphil: 1930's-1960's
�06[20:26] * Sir48 creates {{ref|clippings}}
[20:26] <BarkingFish> SigmaWP: You do *other* stuff? I didn't think there was anything else to do besides edit wikipedia, come on irc, sleep, eat and get blotted :P
[20:27] <Sp33dyphil> crazynas: just copypaste the text
[20:27] <SigmaWP> :P
[20:27] <crazynas> in google?
[20:27] <Sp33dyphil> it's an old paper, so just copypaste it
[20:27] <crazynas> still copivo
[20:27] <Sp33dyphil> really?
[20:27] <crazynas> since I know it's all after 1922
[20:27] <crazynas> pretty sur
[20:27] <crazynas> *sure
[20:27] <gde33> BarkingFish: masturbation
�15[20:28] * Resfirestar (~sam@wikipedia/Res2216firestar) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds�)
[20:28] <Sp33dyphil> oh, so the rule is 90 years +?
[20:28] <BarkingFish> gde33: ah, the art of jerkin the gherkin, eh?
�06[20:28] * crazynas thinks so
[20:28] <crazynas> BarkingFish: is 'out on the piss' BE for 'getting shitfaced'?
[20:29] <BarkingFish> yes
�03[20:29] * russavia (~russavia@CPE-121-221-78-174.lns7.wel.bigpond.net.au) has joined #wikipedia-en
�15[20:29] * russavia (~russavia@CPE-121-221-78-174.lns7.wel.bigpond.net.au) Quit (Changing host�)
�03[20:29] * russavia (~russavia@wikimedia/Russavia) has joined #wikipedia-en
[20:29] <BarkingFish> out on the piss, getting blotted, plastered, pie-eyed, shitfaced, drunk, intoxicated, or quite frankly, paralytic :)
[20:29] <BarkingFish> all means the same shit here, you ain't sober
[20:30] <crazynas> Sp33dyphil: I have no problem using the info, just no way to ref it
[20:30] <crazynas> :P
�06[20:31] * crazynas doesn't want to go digging around his U periodical archives for the actual papers
[20:32] <Sp33dyphil> crazynas: read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Copyright_Durations , and give me a link the to paper
[20:33] <Sp33dyphil> *to the
[20:33] <crazynas> Sp33dyphil: USA and I don't have links I have clippings on my table
�06[20:33] * crazynas researches the old fashioned way
[20:34] <Sir48> don't know which newspaper either?
[20:34] <Sp33dyphil> crazynas: do you have the date, page number and title?
�15[20:34] * Beria (~Beria@wikimedia/Beria) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds�)
�15[20:34] * BarkingFish (~BarkingIn@openglobe/BarkingFish) Quit (Remote host closed the connection�)
�03[20:35] * MooCow93 (MooCow93@unaffiliated/moocow93) has joined #wikipedia-en
�03[20:35] * Seddon (~chatzilla@Wikimedia/Seddon) has joined #wikipedia-en
�03[20:35] * BarkingFish (~BarkingIn@openglobe/BarkingFish) has joined #wikipedia-en
�03[20:35] * Monchoman45 (433ea2ab@wikia/Monchoman45) has joined #wikipedia-en
[20:36] <MooCow93> I once heard something about Leonardo da Vinci about him showing up every day for a month or something to sit down on a chair in front of a big block of marble or something, and then finally, the last day, simply start working intensively on it and get finished in no time after thinking out every step in his head for all those days prior to that. Can somebody help me find this anecdote?
�06[20:37] * Sp33dyphil marvels at how smart da Vinci was
[20:37] <MooCow93> Assuming it is a correct story.
[20:38] <Sp33dyphil> is there any polymath in the modern age?
[20:38] <Maryana> it's too hard to be a polymath these days
[20:38] <Maryana> we have too many maths
[20:38] <Maryana> back when all we knew about the moon was that it's far away, it was easy :)
[20:39] <MooCow93> They thought the moon was made out of cheese and every time it's half-moon, that's because the moon-bird had been there to eat some of the cheese.
[20:39] <Sp33dyphil> seriously, are there polymaths these days?
[20:39] <MooCow93> No, but polyidiots.
[20:39] <MooCow93> People who are idiots in many different ways.
[20:40] <Sp33dyphil> Any polyWikipedians?
�03[20:41] * Sp33dyphil is now known as Sp33dymeal
[20:42] <BarkingFish> Sp33dymeal: as in Wikipedians who work on more than one wikipedia?
�06[20:42] * Jeff_G is a polywikimedian.
�03[20:43] * peteforsyth (~peteforsy@wikipedia/peteforsyth) has joined #wikipedia-en
�06[20:43] * SigmaWP is a polywikian
[20:43] <BarkingFish> If that's what you mean, I'd count myself as an occasional polywikipedian, i've edited en, nl, de, no, fr and tpi - but that's about it out of the wikipedias.
�06[20:43] * SigmaWP votes Pete for sith
�06[20:43] * Jeff_G is also a polywikian
[20:43] <SigmaWP> Jeff_G: Except I do less constructive stuff on those other wikis :P
�15[20:43] * erikhaugen (~erikhauge@wikipedia/ErikHaugen) Quit (Quit: erikhaugen�)
[20:44] <BarkingFish> I don't do a whole bloody lot myself on the other wikis, with the exception of tpi - mostly minor edits, requests for speedy (DSI on fr.wp) and some little bits of shit elsewhere
[20:45] <BarkingFish> other than that, why I'm registered with 131 wikis is a mystery. I don't work on most of them.
�03[20:46] * Alpha_Quadrant (~opera@wikipedia/Alpha-Quadrant) has left #wikipedia-en
[20:46] <BarkingFish> >> speedy for any interested admins - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodosia_and_the_Staff_of_Osiris
[20:46] <MooCow93> BarkingFish: tpi = ?
[20:46] <BarkingFish> a one word article... that's not a stub, that's still a freaking seed
[20:46] <MooCow93> How can you edit both en, nl, de, no, fr?
�03[20:46] * Jeff_G is now known as JeffPidginAFK
[20:47] <BarkingFish> MooCow93: Tok Pisin (Pidgin English, Solomon Islands and papua new guinea, etc)
[20:47] <Snowolf> MooCow93: that sounds a lot more like Michelangelo to me rather than Leo
[20:47] <Snowolf> Leonardo wasn't a sculptor
[20:47] <BarkingFish> MooCow93: because I speak English pretty fluently, and some of the other languages I mentioned
�03[20:47] * HallowsAG (~HallowsAG@114-215.static.espeed.com.bn) has joined #wikipedia-en
[20:48] <BarkingFish> I don't believe in using English with speakers of other languages when they have their own.
[20:48] <Snowolf> (he did some sculpting sure but more on the side iirc)
[20:48] <Snowolf> BarkingFish: no English uber alles?
�15[20:48] * HallowsAG (~HallowsAG@114-215.static.espeed.com.bn) Quit (Client Quit�)
[20:48] <Mifter> Lol this is perhaps the most wikipedia related discussion I have seen here in a long time :P Most times is some random tangent ;)
[20:48] <BarkingFish> Snowolf: nuh uh. No way. Someone comes to england, fine, they should learn English. No problem
[20:49] <Snowolf> I thought we were plotting to exterminate all local languages
�15[20:49] * Maryana (~justdandy@126.sub-174-253-245.myvzw.com) Quit (Quit: AFK�)
�06[20:49] * SigmaWP melts the americans
[20:49] <SigmaWP> Aluminum. Bah!
[20:49] <Snowolf> SigmaWP: you need to blend the two
[20:50] <Snowolf> so you make both angry :)
�03[20:51] * Maryana (~justdandy@126.sub-174-253-245.myvzw.com) has joined #wikipedia-en
�06[20:51] * Mifter takes SigmaWP and throws American flags at :P
�06[20:51] * Snowolf rants about eating biscuits while watching a movie to annoy everybody
�15[20:52] * BarkingFish (~BarkingIn@openglobe/BarkingFish) Quit (Disconnected by services�)
[20:53] <Lubaf> Hrm.
[20:53] <Lubaf> I'm quitting that conversation.
[20:54] <Lubaf> In another channel, they're trying to dissuade someone from the position that "Porn is morally wrong" is an objective fact.
�03[20:54] * Resfirestar_ is now known as Resfirestar
�03[20:54] * Dcoetzee (~chatzilla@wikimedia/Dcoetzee) has joined #wikipedia-en
[20:55] <Lubaf> (S)he has proven most resistant to any form of logic.
[20:55] <MooCow93> Dammit. People keep disappearing before I get a chance to reply.
�06[20:55] * crazynas waves to Dcoetzee
�06[20:55] * SigmaWP high-fives Dcoetzee
[20:55] <MooCow93> Snowolf: Well, maybe it was Michael. My memory is foggy. I'm trying to find the quote/anecdote/story.
[20:55] <Dcoetzee> Hi crazynas :-)
[20:55] <Dcoetzee> Hi Sigma
�06[20:55] * Dcoetzee waves.
[20:56] <Lubaf> Quote: "But it can't not be a fact." "it is. not. a fact" "No it can't."
[20:57] <Dcoetzee> The real question is not how could it not be a fact, but how *couldn't* it not be a fact?
[20:57] <Snowolf> MooCow93: Michelangelo used to say how the sculpture was already in the block of stone and his job was just freeing it, so it makes some sense to me, also, Leonardo had weird sleeping habits which involved, iirc, him sleeping every few hours, so I'm just going off probability. No clue about how to find the anecdote tho
[20:57] <Lubaf> At this point, I've given up and declared him/her "objectively equivalent to a troll".
[20:58] <MooCow93> :-(
�03[20:58] * rockerball (~rockerbal@120.152.48.95) has joined #wikipedia-en
[20:58] <MooCow93> I hate it when I look up some phrase or something and there is only one Wikipedia article about it and it's a stupid album.
[20:58] <MooCow93> There is a stupid, shitty album with the title of 99% of the things I wanna learn about.
[20:58] <Dcoetzee> Yeah that's one of my frustrations with the flat namespace.
[20:59] <Lubaf> Examplay?
[20:59] <Shirik> btw MooCow93
[20:59] <Shirik> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stupid_Shit
[20:59] <Dcoetzee> You often don't find what you're expecting just because what you're expecting has no article.
[20:59] <Shirik> seriously click it
[20:59] <MooCow93> Example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blondes_Have_More_Fun
�15[20:59] * Monchoman45 (433ea2ab@wikia/Monchoman45) Quit (Quit: sweeping�)
[20:59] <MooCow93> I wanna know why blondes would have more fun.
[20:59] <MooCow93> But I get a crappy music album.
[21:00] <SigmaWP> MooCow93: :|
[21:00] <Lubaf> MooCow93: That's etymology.
[21:00] <Dcoetzee> Should I be surprised that a pop group had success with a song called "Stupid Shit"?
[21:00] <Snowolf> MooCow93: where would you find a RS stating blondes do have more fun? :P
[21:00] <Lubaf> Go add "etymology" to "blondes have more fun"
[21:00] <MooCow93> :S
�03[21:00] * rockerball (~rockerbal@120.152.48.95) has left #wikipedia-en
[21:00] <MooCow93> Snowolf: At least it could explain the phrase.
[21:00] <Shirik> Dcoetzee: It doesn't really surprisze me
[21:00] <Shirik> surprise
[21:00] <Shirik> wow
[21:01] <Snowolf> MooCow93: uhm that's prolly best on wikt, isn't it? Tho I never found the project very much useful
[21:01] <MooCow93> " Blondes are often assumed to have more fun, for example in a Clairol commercial for hair colorant they use the phrase "Is it true blondes have more fun?"[40] Some women have reported after lightening their hair they feel other people expect them to be more fun-loving"
[21:01] <Lubaf> It's untrue, by the way. Lesbians have more fun, haircolor doesn't enter into it.
�15[21:01] * Sp33dymeal (1b209a83@wikipedia/Sp33dyphil) Quit (Quit: Page closed�)
�06[21:01] * MooCow93 never liked the separation of an encyclopedia and a dictionary.
[21:01] <MooCow93> Especially not in digital format.
[21:01] <Lubaf> (At least, in bed)
[21:01] <Dcoetzee> I'd argue that WP does a terrible job in general of documenting vague cultural concepts.
�06[21:02] * Lubaf kids.
[21:02] <Dcoetzee> TV Tropes does a considerably better job of that :-P
[21:02] <Lubaf> Dcoetzee: That's not WP's mission
[21:02] <Dcoetzee> True
[21:02] <Lubaf> That's Wiktonary's mission.
[21:02] <Dcoetzee> Not really
�15[21:02] * Sir48 (~Sir48@2.108.96.96) Quit (Quit: Leaving�)
[21:02] <Dcoetzee> Wiktionary's mission is to document terminology and usage.
[21:02] <Dcoetzee> There isn't a wiki right now for culture.
[21:02] <SigmaWP> Dcoetzee: Wikipedia has documented the coal balls.
[21:02] <Lubaf> TVTropes comes close, of course.
[21:02] <SigmaWP> Life is complete.
[21:03] <Lubaf> SigmaWP: Yes, but you can write an encyclopedic article about coal balls.
[21:03] <Dcoetzee> TV Tropes is more about patterns in media, but as media reflects culture it sometimes comes close.
[21:04] <Dcoetzee> e.g. the idea that people with glasses are smart http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SmartPeopleWearGlasses
�06[21:04] * crazynas waves
�06[21:05] * Dcoetzee waves.
�15[21:05] * crazynas (ae19b4f5@wikipedia/crazynas) Quit (Quit: Page closed�)
[21:05] <Peter-C> GOD DAMN IT
�06[21:05] * Peter-C tosses Dcoetzee across the room in rage
[21:05] <Dcoetzee> Please don't
[21:05] <Peter-C> The *one* time Monobook has a usefull feature for me
[21:05] <Peter-C> But it won't work
[21:05] <SigmaWP> Wom wom wommmmmm
[21:06] <Peter-C> Why won't you reate a table for me damn it
[21:06] <Peter-C> Oh, and Dcoetzee, you seem to make a lot of cool pics of Wikipedians, take one of me :P
[21:06] <Dcoetzee> You don't live anywhere near me.
[21:07] <Peter-C> Wikimania 2012? :D
[21:07] <Dcoetzee> I could draw a picture of what I imagine you look like
[21:07] <Peter-C> Holy crap, that sounds 100% awesome!
[21:07] <Peter-C> Would you really?
[21:07] <Peter-C> O_o
[21:09] <Dcoetzee> I suck at drawing, and may not have a charitable mental impression of your appearance :-P
�15[21:09] * WilliamH_UK (WilliamH_U@Wikipedia/WilliamH) Quit (Quit: sleep�)
[21:09] <Dcoetzee> But yes
[21:10] <Snowolf> Dcoetzee: you need to make a deal with Peter that you'll draw it if he puts it on his userpage :D
[21:10] <Dcoetzee> Heh
[21:10] <Dcoetzee> Clever thinking
[21:10] <Peter-C> I honestly would :P
[21:10] <Peter-C> Draw me riding Snowolf >:D
[21:11] <Dcoetzee> I could do that
[21:11] <Snowolf> Oh dear
�06[21:11] * Peter-C pets Snowolf
[21:11] <Dcoetzee> (I'm gonna go ahead and assume you *don't* want that to be sexually explicit)
�06[21:11] * Peter-C facepalms
[21:11] <Peter-C> no
�03[21:11] * MooCow93 (MooCow93@unaffiliated/moocow93) has left #wikipedia-en
[21:12] <nprice> please take furry chat elsewhere
[21:12] <nprice> seriously
[21:12] <nprice> this is *FAR* from the place
[21:13] <SigmaWP> nprice: What?
[21:13] <Peter-C> O_o
[21:13] <Peter-C> What...
[21:13] <SigmaWP> Good coal balls
[21:13] <nprice> 20:45 < Peter-C> Draw me riding Snowolf >:D 20:45 * Peter-C pets Snowolf
[21:13] <Peter-C> Ok, you ride a horse
[21:13] <Dcoetzee> nprice: He meant that completely innocently. :-P
[21:13] <Peter-C> You also ride snow wolfs...
[21:14] <Peter-C> Sir, get your mind OUT OF THE GUTTER.
�15[21:14] * LikeLakers2-1 (~LikeLaker@wikipedia/LikeLakers2) Quit (Quit: *insert generic Quit Message here*�)
[21:14] <nprice> eh whatever, i still think it's inappropriate
[21:15] <Dcoetzee> That's like saying when a French person says "Oui" it's inappropriate because it sounds like "wee".
[21:16] <SigmaWP> Whee.
[21:16] <SigmaWP> Oui.
[21:18] <Peter-C> Most random thing of the day: Australasian Triage Scale
�15[21:20] * derpyfoo (~no@unaffiliated/d-e-r-p/x-3722634) Quit (Quit: derpyfoo�)
�15[21:20] * raindrift (~Adium@wikimedia/raindrift) Quit (Quit: Leaving.�)
�03[21:21] * la_pianista (~la_pianis@99-174-206-197.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net) has joined #wikipedia-en
�15[21:21] * la_pianista (~la_pianis@99-174-206-197.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Changing host�)
�03[21:21] * la_pianista (~la_pianis@wikipedia/La-Pianista) has joined #wikipedia-en
[21:22] <Peter-C> Holy crap, it is la_pianista
�06[21:22] * Peter-C glomps
[21:22] <la_pianista> Holy pianista, it's a crap
�06[21:22] * la_pianista glomps
[21:22] <Dcoetzee> la_pianista: Hi!
[21:22] <la_pianista> Hi! :D
�06[21:22] * la_pianista glomps as well.
[21:22] <la_pianista> Or is that a little too familiar?
[21:22] <la_pianista> Well, said and done.
[21:22] <Dcoetzee> Not at all :-)
[21:22] <la_pianista> How is everyone?
�06[21:22] * Dcoetzee glomps back
[21:23] <Dcoetzee> la_pianista: I could be better, kidney stone being annoying at the moment but I'll survive :-P How are you? :-)
[21:23] <Peter-C> Kidney stone!
[21:23] <la_pianista> Wonderful, considering I'm free of stones. :s Hope you feel better soon, hon.
[21:24] <Peter-C> Dcoetzee - I run a semi-legal operatig room in my garage
[21:24] <Dcoetzee> la_pianista: I appreciate it :-) I'll be okay.
[21:24] <Peter-C> I can do surgical things to it if you want
[21:24] <Dcoetzee> la_pianista: What's been going on in your life recently?
�06[21:25] * Dcoetzee gives Peter-C a chocolate cake to operate on.
�15[21:25] * PhancyPhysicist (~charles@cpe-107-9-220-27.neo.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving.�)
[21:25] <tashir> OMBG http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/ClueBot_NG&action=view <3 petan <3 methecooldude <3 !!!
[21:25] <tashir> you did it!!!
[21:25] <SigmaWP> tashir: That happened an hour ago
[21:25] <tashir> oh, I just woke up
[21:26] <tashir> the first thing I did was finish 1/2 inch of cola and then hit reload on ClueBot contribs
[21:26] <Dcoetzee> In case anyone hanging out hasn't seen my proposal in the Signpost or on WP:CENT yet, I would appreciate any feedback you can give. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Tool_apprenticeship
[21:27] <SigmaWP> And I will give you all Orders of Superior Scribes if you support :D
[21:27] <Dcoetzee> Signpost's summary: "The program would allow experienced users to apply for access to a specific tool or set of related tools currently accessible only to administrators, such as blocking or deleting pages."
[21:27] <Dcoetzee> "Successful applicants would receive that set of tools on a short term, probationary basis."
[21:28] <TParis> Did that thing pass?
[21:28] <Dcoetzee> Still running.
[21:28] <SigmaWP> Not yet
[21:28] <SigmaWP> TParis: Just support, and it will :P
[21:28] <Snowolf> Oh dear
[21:28] <TParis> Not positive I support yet
[21:28] <TParis> I like the idea but I'm letting the idea stew a lil
�03[21:28] * LauraHale is now known as Laura|Away
[21:29] <Dcoetzee> TParis: Please take your time, thoughtful responses are what I'm looking for. :-)
[21:29] <TParis> I like the idea of a semi-admin. I just don't like the promotion process.
[21:30] <Dcoetzee> TParis: Could you elaborate?
�03[21:31] * DerHexer (~DerHexer@pD9FF6245.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #wikipedia-en
�15[21:31] * DerHexer (~DerHexer@pD9FF6245.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Changing host�)
�03[21:31] * DerHexer (~DerHexer@wikimedia/DerHexer) has joined #wikipedia-en
�15[21:33] * DerHexer (~DerHexer@wikimedia/DerHexer) Quit (Client Quit�)
�15[21:34] * Demiurge1000 (~chatzilla@wikipedia/Demiurge1000) Quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 8.0/20111104165243]�)
�03[21:34] * la_pianista is now known as pianista|ping
�06[21:35] * SigmaWP just got defeated by a captcha >_>
[21:35] <Dcoetzee> Someone should make a CAPTCHA-based fighting game
[21:36] <pianista|ping> You got...captcha'd! Bahahaha!
[21:36] <pianista|ping> K, leaving now.
�06[21:36] * pianista|ping waddles off.
�03[21:36] * iFork (~eoins@cpe-024-163-067-169.nc.res.rr.com) has joined #wikipedia-en
�03[21:36] * quanticle|away is now known as quanticle
[21:37] <Dcoetzee> pianista|ping: Take care :-)
[21:37] <pianista|ping> Nuu, I meant that as in, my joke was horrible.
[21:37] <pianista|ping> But if you want me to leave...I can do that, too.
[21:37] <pianista|ping> ;(
�15[21:37] * iFork (~eoins@cpe-024-163-067-169.nc.res.rr.com) Quit (Changing host�)
�03[21:37] * iFork (~eoins@clubpenguinwiki/user/unknownfork) has joined #wikipedia-en
[21:37] <SigmaWP> pianista|ping: Bach in a minuet :P
[21:37] <pianista|ping> Ouais! xD
[21:38] <Dcoetzee> pianista|ping: Ohhh I see
[21:38] <Dcoetzee> pianista|ping: Don't go, the channel is way cooler with you in it :-)
[21:38] <SigmaWP> Pokemon
[21:38] <pianista|ping> I thought it was hotter.
[21:38] <pianista|ping> Hmm.
[21:38] <Dcoetzee> Both!
�06[21:38] * pianista|ping wonders if one can be cool and hot at the same time.
[21:38] <Peter-C> pianista|ping don't leave :3
�03[21:38] * Guest85253 (~sarah@105.135.63.97) has joined #wikipedia-en
[21:38] <pianista|ping> What, like those icy-hot pads?
[21:39] <pianista|ping> Those aren't sexy. Unless you like the smell of bengay or something.
[21:39] <Peter-C> cool and hot is redundent in these times...
[21:39] <Dcoetzee> More like an ice sculpture of the sun.
�15[21:40] * Lubaf (~chatzilla@c-67-188-188-70.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 8.0/20111104165243]�)
�03[21:40] * tashir is now known as tashir_coffee
�15[21:40] * peteforsyth (~peteforsy@wikipedia/peteforsyth) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds�)
[21:42] <MasterofPuppets> Ah, yes, the sub-admin proposal... ugh.
[21:42] <Guest85253> hi
[21:42] <SigmaWP> UGH???
[21:42] <Guest85253> what?
�06[21:42] * SigmaWP blocks the MasterofPuppets for trying to inhibit the course of sock-blocking
�06[21:42] * tashir_coffee celebrates http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vt6NCM-nBE
[21:43] <MasterofPuppets> SigmaWP: Sub-admins wouldn't be able to block sockpuppets, anyway.
[21:43] <MasterofPuppets> Would they?
[21:43] <Dcoetzee> I wouldn't call it a sub-admin proposal :-P
[21:43] <MasterofPuppets> I'm still reading about the limitations.
[21:43] <SigmaWP> Dunno
[21:43] <MasterofPuppets> Dcoetzee: Well, yes, but with all due respect, that's essentially what this is.
[21:43] <MasterofPuppets> An administrator with limited access to tools.
[21:43] <SigmaWP> No
[21:43] <gde33> a socker for puppets
[21:43] <SigmaWP> It's called give-me-the-fucking-delete-button
[21:44] <Dcoetzee> I think of it more like a normal user given temporary access to admin tools.
[21:44] <gde33> admins only work on sunday
[21:44] <MasterofPuppets> Dcoetzee: Cup half empty, cup half full.
[21:44] <Dcoetzee> That's all semantics though :-P
[21:44] <SigmaWP> MasterofPuppets: But the half-full part makes me happy
[21:44] <MasterofPuppets> It just seems... strange. A temporary solution to what's stated to be a permanent problem.
[21:44] <MasterofPuppets> If administration is overworked, why work on a temporary solution? Why not just embrace RfA reform?
[21:45] <SigmaWP> Because nobody knows how to reform it
[21:45] <Dcoetzee> No.
�06[21:45] * tashir_coffee does
[21:45] <Dcoetzee> Because I think this proposal serves a purpose beyond just helping to deal with administrative backlogs.
[21:45] <tashir_coffee> I can give you the perfect admin reform plan in a single ascii character
[21:46] <SigmaWP> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_streets_and_squares_named_after_Adolf_Hitler&redirect=no
[21:46] <SigmaWP> tashir_coffee: Why, so can I!
[21:46] <SigmaWP> Σ
[21:46] <MasterofPuppets> Dcoetzee: What purpose is that?
[21:46] <tashir_coffee> SigmaWP: it's missing 1000 years and a vertical line
[21:46] <Dcoetzee> Teaching users to use tools in compliance with policy, and facilitating more informed evaluation of RfA candidates
[21:46] <SigmaWP> :S
[21:46] <tashir_coffee> getting warmer
[21:47] <slakr> heh
[21:47] <SigmaWP> S-1000
[21:47] <slakr> sub-admins... sounds kinda kinky.
[21:47] <SigmaWP> 1000 years
[21:47] <tashir_coffee> '$' silly http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jimbo_Wales#Auto-archived_question_about_cause_of_attrition
�03[21:47] * Alpha_Quadrant (~opera@wikipedia/Alpha-Quadrant) has joined #wikipedia-en
[21:48] <MasterofPuppets> Dcoetzee: So it's basically admin training?
[21:48] <gde33> what is the point of not moderating talk pages?
�15[21:48] * jorm (~bharris@wikimedia/jorm) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds�)
[21:48] <Dcoetzee> MasterofPuppets: Not entirely. Some people just want to help get work done. But it also achieves that.
[21:48] <Dcoetzee> If the user chooses to pursue RfA later.
[21:48] <slakr> we already have sub-admins
[21:49] <slakr> in fact, like 5 different sub-admin flags
[21:49] <MasterofPuppets> We rarely have a user fail RfA nowadays thanks to the abundance of training materials, mentors, etc... I just feel this is extraneous, that's all.
[21:49] <slakr> and gazillions of noticeboards
[21:49] <slakr> short of literally giving them sysop, I fail to see how much more a "sub-admin" needs to do to prove himself as an admin
[21:49] <slakr> and if you're gonna give them sysop, then just make them a freaking admin.
[21:50] <MasterofPuppets> Those are my thoughts..
[21:50] <Dcoetzee> MasterofPuppets: Part of the purpose is also to indirectly encourage more people to run for RfA. Getting experience with tools builds confidence.
[21:50] <JeffPidginAFK> Isn't the sysop bit identical to admin group membership?
�03[21:50] * JeffPidginAFK is now known as Jeff_G
[21:51] <slakr> if you want to encourage timid people to run for RFA, find a way to ban the trolls from RFA.
[21:51] <TParis> WP:BANKEEPCASES?
[21:51] <slakr> otherwise, I assure you, people who want to be an admin will find their way to RFA.
�06[21:51] * Jeff_G tried to get a troll out of RFA, but too many were protecting him.
[21:51] <Dcoetzee> slakr: A worthy goal, but not the goal of this proposal.
[21:51] <MasterofPuppets> Dcoetzee: I'll airmail them cookies if they need confidence, but this just seems weird. Building a system that runs exactly the same as RFA, just with lower standards and lower payouts, will result in the exact same mindfuck RfA has become.
[21:51] <Jeff_G> yes, Keepscases
[21:52] <Alpha_Quadrant> TParis: strong support
�06[21:52] * slakr isn't actually proposing that, just using it as an example
[21:52] <slakr> that said
[21:52] <Alpha_Quadrant> if you were to delete RFA, he would only have about 100 edits left
[21:53] <Dcoetzee> MasterofPuppets: There are several mechanisms to defend against that. In addition to the restrictions on users, discussions will be moderated to remove/hide irrelevant material, and I introduced the conditional support to help avoid polarization.
�15[21:53] * Maryana (~justdandy@126.sub-174-253-245.myvzw.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds�)
[21:53] <slakr> bleh
�06[21:53] * slakr shrugs
[21:53] <MasterofPuppets> Dcoetzee: But that only creates more work, more things that need oversighting.
[21:53] <Dcoetzee> MasterofPuppets: I can't anticipate how discussions will go, but I sincerely expect them to be less dramaful.
[21:53] <slakr> and by the way
[21:53] <slakr> *why are you adding more bureaucracy*
[21:53] <MasterofPuppets> What if a "temp-sysop" comes into an editing conflict with a fully-fledged administrator? Does one of them have the right of way? Is it wheel warring if they disagree?
[21:53] <slakr> *we have far too much as it is*
[21:54] <Dcoetzee> slakr: To get more work done. That is, after all, the only legitimate excuse for bureaucracy.
[21:54] <MasterofPuppets> Dcoetzee: I apologize if it seems we're all surrounding you into a corner, that's not what this is. I fully am behind the idea of reforming RfA and helping people train to be administrators. But I feel that this isn't the way to go about it.
[21:54] <MasterofPuppets> Apologies if you feel like people are just basing.
[21:54] <Dcoetzee> MasterofPuppets: It's fine, everyone's entitled to their opinion and you raise good points. :-)
[21:54] <tashir_coffee> what if a fully-fledged administrator has relationship troubles because they are having trouble balancing work, family, and wikipedia?
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[21:55] <slakr> tbh, I'm guessing this "sub-admin" stuff is, ironically, coming from jaded people who hate the bureaucracy involved in unseating admins in the first place.
[21:55] <Dcoetzee> MasterofPuppets: I would generally expect apprentices not to wheel war, just like real admins... if they do, that's surely a probation violation and they'd lose the tool.
[21:55] <tashir_coffee> do we really want to grief the 750 or however admins are still with us while $12 million sits in CitioBank earning 0.4% interest?
[21:55] <Dcoetzee> They should discuss disagreements.
[21:56] <slakr> I just say we leave RFA as it is. People who aren't admins already feel obligated to jump through all the hoops to get every single extended user right before +sysop
[21:56] <MasterofPuppets> Dcoetzee: Of course, and that's what *should* happen. But, as I'm sure you've seen, what should happen never happens.
[21:57] <MasterofPuppets> I guarantee that, within the first week, a temp admin will do something somebody didn't like, an administrator will revert without discussing, and you'll have a debacle over why the administrator should have rights greater then that of the temp admin, etc.
[21:57] <Dcoetzee> Ohh I see.
[21:57] <slakr> I disagree with that assumption
�03[21:58] * tashir_coffee is now known as tashir_nomnomnom
[21:58] <slakr> just because a tempadmin would exist doesn't mean that it'll turn other admins into tards
[21:58] <Dcoetzee> Well, I actually do want admins to undo stupid actions by apprentices. That's part of the learning process.
[21:58] <slakr> but again, to be honest, "temporary admins" are just a bad idea to begin with imo.
[21:58] <Dcoetzee> If an admin undoes an action and the apprentice disagrees however, they should definitely talk it out then. It's like the bold, revert, discuss cycle.
[21:58] <MasterofPuppets> Slakr: There are tard admins already. :P
[21:59] <slakr> it's unneeded bureaucracy... period. Every admin should be considered to be a "temp admin" if he's gonna be going hog-wild
[21:59] <slakr> because let's face it
[21:59] <slakr> they'll get desysopped.
[21:59] <MasterofPuppets> Dcoetzee: Right. But see, that's where the bureaucracy steps in. We spend hours of policy-writing trying to ensure that administrative privileges are seen as No Big Deal - but the second you give someone a part of the tools, then tell them "Master of Puppets over there, he's superior to you" - what message does that send?
[21:59] <zscout370> and their decisions generally reversed
[21:59] <TParis> It creates a lot of drama to desysop an admin. Not saying it can't and isn't done, but it's always an "event" to do it.
[22:00] <slakr> zscout370: exactly.
[22:00] <Mike_H> Dickinson, 56, continued: "The fact of the matter is [Tyra Banks] makes like $90 million. She makes a lot of money per year still hawking that franchise worldwide -- they're doing it in every country -- and it's CoverGirl who chooses the winner." She then signed off on the interview by shouting "F*** you Tyra! Eat a bag of royal skank!"
[22:00] <Mike_H> rofl Janice
�03[22:01] * peteforsyth (~peteforsy@wikipedia/peteforsyth) has joined #wikipedia-en
[22:01] <Dcoetzee> MasterofPuppets: I don't think this is actually very different from how things work now. Administrators reverse each other's actions all the time.
[22:02] <Dcoetzee> I've undeleted many an incorrect speedy deletion, for example.
[22:02] <Dcoetzee> It becomes wheel warring if goes beyond the one revert without discussion.
[22:02] <MasterofPuppets> Dcoetzee: Yes, but we're functionally equal. A temporary admin isn't functionally equal to a full admin, and they won't be seen as in equal standing.
[22:03] <Dcoetzee> In some sense they're not quite equal in that they're still learning whereas most admins are quite experienced.
[22:03] <slakr> ...and....it's unneded bureaucracy--and redundant; *all admins are temporary admins when it comes to issues of abuse*
[22:03] <slakr> that's the whole idea behind "adminship is not a big deal"
[22:03] <Dcoetzee> But I would hope everyone would treat each other as colleagues.
[22:03] <Dcoetzee> Perhaps I'm idealistic :-P
[22:03] <MasterofPuppets> slakr: Exactly.
[22:04] <MasterofPuppets> Dcoetzee: And perhaps I'm a cynic. We all try to keep a nice home, but, sometimes, there's that one person who has to shit on the rug (pardon the language).
�03[22:04] * Ayan (47239228@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.35.146.40) has joined #wikipedia-en
[22:04] <Ayan> hello?
[22:04] <TParis> hi
[22:04] <Mifter> Dcoetzee: Idealism is what made this whole encyclopedia possible... 10 years ago how many people would think we could build something like this with only volunteers?
[22:04] <slakr> Ayan: 'lo
[22:04] <Ayan> ladmin
[22:05] <slakr> Ayan: go ahead and let us know what the problem is; there are several admins around
[22:05] <TParis> Mifter: Habitat for Humanity does it all the time.
[22:05] <Ayan> ladimin
�15[22:05] * peteforsyth (~peteforsy@wikipedia/peteforsyth) Quit (Client Quit�)
[22:05] <Ayan> hello?
[22:05] <slakr> Ayan: yes, we can see you
[22:05] <Ayan> i'm a wikipedia helper
[22:05] <Ayan> do you need help?
[22:05] <slakr> nope, but feel free to stick around in case other people drop in
[22:05] <zscout370> TParis, but there isn't a former head of state that is propping us up
[22:05] <Dcoetzee> MasterofPuppets: I guess I'd say if an admin makes it their business to start pushing apprentices around unfairly, when they aren't doing anything wrong, I'd hope it wouldn't be tolerated.
[22:05] <Ayan> ok
[22:05] <slakr> you can also idle in #wikipedia-en-help
[22:06] <slakr> (and help there)
[22:06] <Mifter> Somone said they needed an admin?
[22:06] <Ayan> im here
[22:06] <slakr> Mifter: it's no problem; it's covered.
[22:06] <Ayan> ok
[22:06] <MasterofPuppets> Dcoetzee: Oh, of course not.
[22:06] <Ayan> if you need any help im a wikipedia admin
[22:06] <Mifter> slakr: okie dokie, I'm babysitting my bot atm so I'm around but kinda bored...
[22:06] <TParis> zscout370: No, we got better. We got a sexy sexy Mr. Wales. He's so sexy, we put his picture on top of all of our articles once a year.
[22:06] <slakr> Ayan: really? what's your user name?
�03[22:06] * Laura|Away is now known as LAURAHALE
�03[22:06] * LAURAHALE is now known as LauraHale
[22:07] <Ayan> helolo
[22:07] <Mifter> TParis: But we started putting other people up there now :P
�15[22:07] * russavia (~russavia@wikimedia/Russavia) Quit (Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~�)
[22:07] <Ayan> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
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�03[22:07] * ChanServ sets mode: +o slakr
�03[22:07] * slakr sets mode: +q *!*@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.35.146.40
�03[22:07] * slakr sets mode: -ov slakr slakr
[22:07] <MasterofPuppets> Dcoetzee: After all, administrators are just editors. I try to stand by that.
[22:07] <Earwig> ...again
[22:07] <zscout370> TParis, I would want Putin on my pages rather than Mr. Wales
[22:07] <Dcoetzee> MasterofPuppets: *nod* I agree that that's the attitude we should encourage.
�15[22:08] * Ayan (47239228@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.35.146.40) Quit (Client Quit�)
[22:08] <Dcoetzee> MasterofPuppets: Experience and history may weigh into considerations of someone's opinion, but many non-admin users have experience too.
[22:08] <MasterofPuppets> Exactly.
�03[22:09] * ChanServ sets mode: +o slakr
[22:09] <MasterofPuppets> The problem is that RfA is a cesspool/breeding ground for the mentality that admins are privileged. Blech.
�03[22:09] * slakr sets mode: +b *!*@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.35.146.40
�03[22:09] * slakr sets mode: -q *!*@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.35.146.40
�03[22:09] * slakr sets mode: -ov slakr slakr
[22:09] <slakr> (he was already banned for the exact same thing in -help
[22:09] <MasterofPuppets> slakr slakr: by slakr.
[22:09] <MasterofPuppets> I sense a future perfume.
[22:09] <Mifter> RfA is a mess but its hard to find a better way to do it, we've been talking of fixing it for years but nothing much has ever gained traction
[22:09] <Mifter> lol
[22:10] <Dcoetzee> *nod* The attitude that administrators are supposed to "represent the community" and "carry authority" and so on. Which is largely a cultural artifact.
[22:10] <Earwig> MasterofPuppets: hah!
[22:10] <Dcoetzee> And resisting the growth of a culture like that around apprentices too is also a big challenge.
[22:11] <MasterofPuppets> Said growth will be interesting to keep down if this appeal passes.
[22:11] <MasterofPuppets> -appeal +proposal
[22:11] <Dcoetzee> The name itself was chosen to suggest their "trainee"/not-a-real-admin status.
[22:11] <MasterofPuppets> My suggestion: call them all Thing#
[22:11] <MasterofPuppets> With a number at the end.
[22:12] <MasterofPuppets> It'll be so cute.
[22:12] <Maid> It would be
[22:12] <Mifter> lol
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[22:12] <Maid> Give them all blue hair as well. :)
[22:12] <Dcoetzee> Heh
[22:12] <MasterofPuppets> And little orange jumpsuits.
[22:12] <Dcoetzee> Dr. Seuss style
[22:12] <Dcoetzee> Nice
[22:12] <MasterofPuppets> I'm sure WMF has some money left over we can use for this after the fundraising is done.
[22:12] <Mifter> So wait whats this proposal? I've not had time ot really follow goings on outside of article editing and AIV
[22:13] <LL2|JedIRC> Ok, all of you are DEAD!
[22:13] <MasterofPuppets> Mifter: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Tool_apprenticeship
[22:13] <Maid> Come on Mifter, I only ever use Huggle and I know about it. :P
�15[22:13] * pianista|ping (~la_pianis@wikipedia/La-Pianista) Quit (Quit: <3�)
[22:13] <Thorncrag> I'm so glad my brain doesn't work like windows registry
[22:14] <Mifter> Lol, I've been so busy I haven't been really "active" in months, the best I've been able to do is the occasional edit or AIV backlog clearing (This is mt second time on IRC in 6 months :P )
[22:14] <Maid> I'm glad your brain works then. :P
[22:14] <LL2|JedIRC> Probably does, actually
[22:14] <Mifter> MasterofPuppets: Thanks for the link
[22:14] <Dcoetzee> Mifter: Read the non-talk page first of course or it won't make sense :-)
[22:14] <Dcoetzee> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Tool_apprenticeship
[22:14] <Mifter> Danke
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[22:16] <Maid> If it's going by non-automated edits, I'll never qualify. :P
[22:16] <MasterofPuppets> Mifter: I exist to serve!
[22:16] <LL2|JedIRC> Aw, how cute--OH SHIT! OH FUCK! GET THIS THING OFF OF ME!
[22:16] <Maid> Because Huggle is my mistress <3
[22:17] <LL2|JedIRC> :P
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[22:17] <MasterofPuppets> Alright, time to go inspect the latest nightclub. Have a safe night, folks!
[22:17] <Mifter> So how would this effect current admins? Or would it not do anything at all, because I could see it turning into a hierarchy with ideas of superiority taking hold and causing problems... Also, edit-protected is something that I'm not sure would be needed as their are limited uses for it outside of editing a small subset of always protected pages...
[22:17] SpamTunes stopped.
�06[22:17] * Peter-C eats Mifter
[22:17] <Mifter> ^ and wouldn't it be bundled with the protect right?
[22:17] <Mifter> lol
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�06[22:18] * Mifter is devils advocate...
[22:18] <tashir_nomnomnom> as awesome as ClueBot is, my human vandalism revert notice is far superior http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Ellie0903 sapiens before silicon
[22:18] <Mifter> lol
[22:18] <LL2|JedIRC> nowai
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[22:20] <Dcoetzee> tashir_nomnomnom: Awesome :-)
[22:20] <Mifter> http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-57326934-64/intel-supercomputer-revamp-needs-our-50-core-chip/ once we get a comp full of these its over :P
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[22:20] <Dcoetzee> A little informal approcahability can really help a vandal reform, I think.
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[22:21] <Dcoetzee> Knights Corner is awesome, but figuring out what to do with it is a giant research question.
[22:21] <Dcoetzee> Running desktop OSs on manycore... nobody's got a good answer for how that will actually help anybody yet.
�15[22:21] * MasterofPuppets (~MasterofP@Wikipedia/Master-of-Puppets) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds�)
[22:21] <Dcoetzee> Tessellation at my school did some work in that direction.
�15[22:21] * Courcelles_ (~Courcelle@wikipedia/courcelles) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds�)
[22:22] <Dcoetzee> We're most likely going to see a lot more dedicated resources, assigning cores to applications, rather than multiplexing them between applications.
[22:22] <Dcoetzee> Which is good for latency.
�03[22:23] * Twomby (4650e720@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.80.231.32) has joined #wikipedia-en
[22:24] <Mifter> Well AMD is dead in the water with bulldozer... So it seems that Intel is running away with the high end and branching out...
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[22:26] <Dcoetzee> My piece of the puzzle is in domain-specific languages... as they become more popular and the level of abstraction of development rises, opportunities for tools to introduce more parallelism will abound.
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[22:29] <Mifter> and with parallelism then the ability to use high core counts becomes ever greater and performance can be scaled up
[22:29] <TParis> Does anyone know of anything anywhere that says IAR is not an excuse or exemption to 3RR?
[22:29] <Alpha_Quadrant> that is an unwritten rule
[22:30] <Dcoetzee> Well it actually kinda is.
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[22:30] <TParis> IAR is a reason to edit war? It's ambiguous what "improve the encyclopedia" means and an unstable article isn't improving it.
[22:31] <Dcoetzee> Here's an example.
[22:31] <Alpha_Quadrant> unless it is listed at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:3RRNO IAR doesn't apply
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[22:31] <Mifter> TParis: I don't know if this was your intent with your name, but I now feel compelled to go re-watch some star trek voyager :P
�15[22:31] * AzaToth (~azatoth@wikipedia/AzaToth) Quit (Remote host closed the connection�)
[22:31] <Dcoetzee> Say a WP:INCOMPETENT editor is repeatedly introducing inscrutable material with good intentions. It's not vandalism and isn't listed at 3RRNO, but it's totally sensible to revert it.
[22:32] <Logan_> Like Gfoley4.
[22:32] <TParis> Mifter: I might watch some too ;)
[22:32] <Mifter> :D
[22:32] <Gfoley4> :O
[22:32] <Peter-C> ew, Gfoley4's here
[22:32] <Dcoetzee> Peter-C: Be nice
[22:32] <Peter-C> I thought he was working on PCP tonight
[22:32] <Gfoley4> Peter-C can't make gingerbread houses
[22:32] <TParis> Dcoetzee: Wouldn't an RFPP and talk page discussion fix that problem?
[22:32] <Gfoley4> fyi
[22:33] <Peter-C> :(
[22:33] <Logan_> Peter-C: Don't be nice to Gfoley4.
[22:33] <Dcoetzee> TParis: Yeah I'm not advocating reverting in that circumstances exactly, just saying it's defensible as an IAR action.
[22:33] <Peter-C> Gfoley4 - I can craft a boat out of oak in a week
[22:33] <Gfoley4> :D
[22:33] <Peter-C> Yet I can't construct a damn gingerbread house
�06[22:33] * Peter-C crushes the gingerbread
[22:33] <Peter-C> DAMN IT TO HELL
�06[22:34] * Dcoetzee eats pile of gingerbread.
[22:34] <Dcoetzee> Mmmmm rubble
[22:34] <TParis> Dcoetzee: I suppose, but it'd have to be a pretty obvious case, a very experienced editor, and a very determined incompetent editor.
[22:34] <Gfoley4> "Peter-C, I'm pregnant."
[22:34] <Gfoley4> -Logan
[22:34] <Peter-C> :P
[22:34] <Peter-C> *Oh god, I'm pregnant
[22:34] <Dcoetzee> TParis: I agree... I struggled to identify a plausible example because 3RRNO has been documenting reasonable exceptions forever :-P
[22:34] <Gfoley4> yes, I knew I'd mess up the quote
[22:35] <Gfoley4> for all those who don't know what the hell we're talking about, look up "Parks & Recreation"
[22:35] <Dcoetzee> But I'm a fan in principle of the idea of that IAR really does apply to everything (except for illegal content).
[22:36] <Dcoetzee> I kinda wish there were an equivalent of IAR in real life. In the legal system.
[22:36] <Dcoetzee> Like, you should get off if you try to sue somebody for assault who pushed you out of the way of an oncoming car.
[22:36] <Dcoetzee> er
[22:36] <Dcoetzee> If somebody tries to sue you for... yeah
[22:37] <Dcoetzee> You know what I mean
[22:37] <Dcoetzee> Juries sort of do that with nullification.
[22:37] <Dcoetzee> But rarely.
[22:39] <TParis> I think we need to make lawyers more accountable for the lawsuits they bring.
[22:39] <TParis> My stepdad is a lawyer btw ;) I say that with him in mind.
[22:39] <Peter-C> o_o
[22:40] <Dcoetzee> There are legal penalties for frivolous lawsuits. Perhaps they don't go far enough.
[22:41] <Peter-C> bad lawsuits = death by firing squad
[22:41] <Dcoetzee> ...
[22:41] <Addihockey10> Peter-C: Dude, you should be arrested for planning to kill the US in its entirety.
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[22:42] <Peter-C> O_o
[22:42] <Peter-C> OMG jdelanoy
[22:42] <Peter-C> omgqtfbbq!?
[22:43] <Gfoley4> Addihockey10: I don't think he'd would he the one with the guns
[22:43] <jdelanoy> Peter-C: I never, ever have any regular classes again
[22:43] <jdelanoy> ever
[22:43] <jdelanoy> just two finals, and I'm DONE! :DD
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[22:43] <Peter-C> For good!?
[22:43] <Gfoley4> (obviously would miss)
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[22:43] <Addihockey10> Gfoley4: Pfft. You fuckers probably have trains full.
[22:43] <jdelanoy> well, I get my bachelor of science
[22:43] <jdelanoy> (I'm done with school, not wp ._.)
[22:44] <Gfoley4> ?
[22:44] <Peter-C> (obviously :P)
[22:44] <Addihockey10> jdelanoy: Fuck that. That's the prerequisite degree for what I'm taking.
�03[22:44] * iFork_ is now known as iFork
[22:44] <Alpha_Quadrant> otherwise we would all need to oppose your ArbCom candidacy
[22:44] <Dcoetzee> I'm seriously considering proposing a student-taught class on Wikipedia at my uni.
[22:44] <Addihockey10> :-P
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[22:44] <jdelanoy> Addihockey10: to be specific, I'm getting a bachelor of science in computer science... are you going to graduate school?
[22:45] <Addihockey10> I'm getting a Bachelor of Science in likely chemistry or biology.
[22:45] <Addihockey10> and then I will go to med school to get my M.D.
[22:45] <Dcoetzee> Addihockey10: Awesome :-)
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[22:45] <jdelanoy> sweet
[22:46] <Dcoetzee> Both your degrees are awesome :-)
�06[22:46] * jdelanoy is NOT going to grad school >.>
[22:46] <Addihockey10> I have A's in all my academic courses.
�06[22:47] * Peter-C sends jdelanoy to grad school
[22:47] <jdelanoy> NOOOOOO
[22:47] <Dcoetzee> I wasn't going to go to grad school but changed my mind.
[22:47] <jdelanoy> Addihockey10: I haven't gotten an A since sophomore year :P
[22:47] <Dcoetzee> When I realised I wanted to teach and do research and not just write code
�06[22:47] * jdelanoy <-- not a motivated student
[22:47] <Peter-C> what do you want to do?
[22:47] <jdelanoy> actually, no I take that back
[22:47] <Addihockey10> jdelanoy: My motivation is the salary of a doctor.
[22:47] <jdelanoy> I did get one
[22:47] <Addihockey10> :-)
[22:47] <jdelanoy> lol
[22:47] <Dcoetzee> Addihockey10: Not so much the helping people not die thing? :-P
[22:47] <Peter-C> Addihockey10 is going to be a doctor!?
[22:48] <Addihockey10> Fuck yeah.
[22:48] <Gfoley4> (good luck paying)
[22:48] <Peter-C> Addihockey10 how old are you O_o
[22:48] <Addihockey10> Gfoley4: You don't know how much money I have.
[22:48] <jdelanoy> well, from what I've heard, most people hiring for CS don't care so much about grades as if you actually know what you're doing
[22:48] <Addihockey10> Peter-C: I'm 11.
[22:48] <Gfoley4> rite.
[22:48] <Peter-C> ^
[22:48] <jdelanoy> or at least that's what I tell myself so I don't cry at night :p
�15[22:48] * Queen (~Ty@wikia/ZamorakO-o) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds�)
[22:48] <Gfoley4> haha
[22:48] <Dcoetzee> jdelanoy: Depends very much on the company actually
�03[22:48] * Jeske_Merensky (~chatzilla@unaffiliated/jeske-couriano/x-0000001) has joined #wikipedia-en
[22:49] <Dcoetzee> jdelanoy: But what they really want to see I think is initiative and a portfolio... cool stuff you've worked on.
[22:49] <jdelanoy> yeah
[22:49] <Dcoetzee> That and a basic knowledge of first year classes :-P
�03[22:49] * tashir_nomnomnom is now known as tashir
[22:49] <TParis> Dcoetzee: Since you've taken an interest, can you please help me on ANI before I tear my hair out?
[22:50] <Dcoetzee> Interviewers love to ask stupid first year CS questions
[22:50] <Dcoetzee> Like how to reverse a singly linked list
[22:50] <TParis> I've stuck with the IAR isnt an excuse for 3RR for the sake of this editor though I'll admit I can see your POV.
[22:50] <Addihockey10> Gfoley4: I actually have a lot of money.
[22:50] <TParis> But in this guy's case, he doesnt have an IAR excuse.
[22:50] <jdelanoy> Dcoetzee: lolwut
[22:50] <tashir> LL2|JedIRC: were you upset about http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vt6NCM-nBE ?
[22:50] <Addihockey10> and even if I didn't, I'd pay it off in my first year :-P
[22:50] <jdelanoy> why??
[22:50] <tashir> hey I have an IAR-related question which doesn't really pertain to IAR
[22:50] <Dcoetzee> jdelanoy: Dunno, cause they're easy to ask and they can feel smug I guess :-P
[22:51] <Gfoley4> Addihockey10: rich uncle?
[22:51] <jdelanoy> heh
[22:51] <tashir> ... I need to formulate it correctly....
[22:51] <Dcoetzee> TParis: Part of IAR is taking is taking responsibility for your actions, since you can't hide behind policy anymore.
[22:51] <Dcoetzee> TParis: If you screw up it's your fault. They should know that. :-P
�06[22:51] * jdelanoy would ask them to prove that heapsort has an average runtime of O(n log_2 n)
[22:51] <Addihockey10> Gfoley4: I have thousands to spend at my leisure.
[22:51] <jdelanoy> >:D
[22:51] <Dcoetzee> Heapsort is *worst-case* O(n log n) dude :-P
[22:51] <jdelanoy> damn
�06[22:52] * jdelanoy self-nerd-sniped
�15[22:52] * Resfirestar (~sam@wikipedia/Res2216firestar) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer�)
[22:52] <Peter-C> Addihockey10 - buy me the Journal of Trauma
�03[22:52] * Resfirestar (sam@r74-195-210-202.end1cmtc01.enidok.ok.dh.suddenlink.net) has joined #wikipedia-en
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[22:52] <Addihockey10> Peter-C: __|__
[22:52] <Peter-C> I will father your children if you do...
[22:52] <jdelanoy> also, I hated that class
[22:52] <Dcoetzee> jdelanoy: Also you don't have to specify what log you mean inside a big-O usually, since log_2 n = log n/log 2 and 1/log 2 is a constant.
[22:52] <Addihockey10> Peter-C: Don't fuck my wife. Thanks.
�03[22:52] * Lisa_Fox` (~w5fox``@c-69-243-155-12.hsd1.il.comcast.net) has joined #wikipedia-en
[22:53] <tashir> Say a parent is trying to teach their child to edit. Because of typical kid behavior seen as vandalism, and confusion involving the same IP/computer/whatever, they get indef blocked. The parent doesn't want to disclose that they have a minor editing. What to do?
�06[22:53] * Peter-C gives Addihockey10 an extra strength chill pill
[22:53] <Peter-C> tashir - Why would they not want to disclose
[22:53] <Addihockey10> tashir: Bake cookies.
[22:53] <jdelanoy> Dcoetzee: meh, that's what my prof made us do :\
[22:53] <Peter-C> ANYONE can edit wikipedia... regardless of age
[22:53] <tashir> have you seen GorrilaWarfare's ED article?
[22:54] <Peter-C> Emergency Department?
[22:54] <Addihockey10> tashir: Erec...
[22:54] <tashir> that's one reason
[22:54] <Addihockey10> Erectile dysfunction?
[22:54] <jdelanoy> the highlight of that class was watching someone try to prove to the prof that bubblesort actually runs in n log n
[22:54] <tashir> encyclopediadramatica
�03[22:54] * Demiurge1000 (~chatzilla@wikipedia/Demiurge1000) has joined #wikipedia-en
�15[22:54] * Lisa_Fox (~w5fox``@c-69-243-155-12.hsd1.il.comcast.net) Quit (Disconnected by services�)
[22:54] <Addihockey10> (shouldn't say that, probs everyone in here has it)
[22:54] <SigmaWP> NSFW
�03[22:54] * Lisa_Fox` is now known as Lisa_Fox
[22:54] <Addihockey10> 'cept me
[22:54] <Peter-C> I had no idea of GorrilaWarfare's Erectile dysfunction
[22:54] <SigmaWP> Or anything else for that matter
[22:54] <Peter-C> O_o
[22:55] <tashir> yeah, so, that's a legitimate reason that a parent wouldn't want to disclose that they have, e.g., a young girl trying to learn to edit, right?
[22:55] <Peter-C> From her PoV, yes, from our PoV, no.
[22:55] <SigmaWP> Never put pictures of yourself on the internet
[22:56] <tashir> there is another similar situation involving kids messing around on parents computers, but it's harder to explain, and I think it's more common
[22:56] <SigmaWP> By default
[22:56] <Dcoetzee> Peter-C: I met GorillaWarfare in Boston last summer so I knew. I uploaded a photo of her actually but nobody noticed :-P
[22:56] <SigmaWP> o.O
[22:56] <Peter-C> Dcoetzee - I went to her page, saw that epic photo, and saw you took it and I thought to myself "I WANT HIM TO TAKE MY PHOTO"
[22:57] <tashir> but it boils down to this: suppose a formerly respected editor apparently goes rogue and starts spewing curse words, and gets indefed (it's more common than you think)
[22:57] <Peter-C> And I also learned you did Kevins
[22:57] <Dcoetzee> She's a good editor. And cute ;-) But 4chan needs to leave her alone.
[22:57] <Dcoetzee> Peter-C: Maybe at Wikimania in DC. :-)
[22:57] <Peter-C> Oh god, what are they doing :2
[22:57] <Peter-C> * :s
[22:57] <tashir> if they don't want to say *why* on their underpage, does WP:FRESHSTART apply?
[22:57] <Dcoetzee> jdelanoy: That's hilarious
[22:57] <SigmaWP> Dcoetzee: "Tits or gtfo", meh
[22:57] <jdelanoy> Dcoetzee: I had him in all my required classes from junior year up
[22:57] <Deathly> are there trolls in here
[22:58] <tashir> s/underpage/userpage
[22:58] <jdelanoy> in linear algebra he would tell the prof that "that's not necessarily true" after the prof did some proof
[22:58] <Dcoetzee> Haha
�03[22:58] * thingg (~chatzilla@wikipedia/Thingg) has joined #wikipedia-en
[22:58] <Gfoley4> Deathly: yes.
[22:58] <Dcoetzee> It is true some theorems elide certain assumptions.
[22:58] <Dcoetzee> (incorrectly)
[22:59] <Deathly> would a parent go to jail in the USA if their child was trading CP over the interwebs?
[22:59] <Dcoetzee> But usually when somebody proves something, it is true :-P
[22:59] <jdelanoy> lol
[22:59] <Dcoetzee> Deathly: Worse
[22:59] <Dcoetzee> Deathly: Children have gone to court for sexting pics of *themselves*
[22:59] <SigmaWP> o.O
[22:59] <Deathly> heaven forbid
[22:59] <tashir> no, Deathly, even if the judge wanted to, we don't send parents to jail for their minor kids' crimes
[22:59] <jdelanoy> after about 5 times of doing this in one class, someone stands up and goes "You're a retard - it's freaking math. It's either right or wrong. Shut. Up."
[22:59] <Peter-C> Dcoetzee - not themselves, the originial recipent
[23:00] <Peter-C> (from my understanding)
[23:00] <SigmaWP> Dcoetzee: Well they have to live with being called "whore" for the rest of their life, so...
[23:00] <Dcoetzee> jdelanoy: Nice
[23:00] <Peter-C> SigmaWP - they sent the photo
[23:00] <Maid> It's better it's image of their own age than the ones older than them
[23:00] <Peter-C> And in most cases it is teens to teens
[23:00] <Peter-C> not teens to creepy pedo
�03[23:00] * foks (~joseph@wikipedia/fox) has joined #wikipedia-en
[23:00] <Deathly> about 40% of the minors I talk to on the internet enguage in sexting
[23:00] <SigmaWP> Dem idiots
[23:00] <Deathly> i think it's higher
[23:00] <Peter-C> we now go to foks for further comentary
[23:01] <Dcoetzee> I ain't saying CP law isn't really important to prevent exploitation, but they could use a few common sense exceptions.
[23:01] <Peter-C> God damn it, why won't anyone sext me :(
[23:01] <Maid> Peter-C: How you going? ;D
[23:01] <Maid> There.
[23:01] <Deathly> i'm going to jail for exploiting myself and i raped myself too
[23:01] <Deathly> self sodomy
[23:01] <Dcoetzee> Deathly: Wow you must be flexible.
[23:01] <Deathly> because i'm a minor
[23:02] <Maid> Hmm... If a minor masturbates, can they can do jail for having sex with a minor?
[23:02] <Dcoetzee> Heh
[23:02] <Deathly> if they are under 13
[23:02] <Deathly> in some states
[23:02] <Peter-C> Random fact: age of consent in NJ, 16
[23:02] <Deathly> age of consent in mexico is 12
[23:02] <Deathly> its on wikipedia
[23:02] <Peter-C> In related news, I turn 16 in 8 days!
[23:02] <Dcoetzee> Believe it or not some countries still have no age of consent.
[23:03] <Peter-C> Wait... that came out wrong....
[23:03] <Deathly> in related news, a 10 year old girl just gave birth in mexico
[23:03] <Maid> Peter-C, have some big plans?
[23:03] <Dcoetzee> Peter-C: ...
[23:03] <Deathly> yesterday or so
[23:03] <tashir> Here's another one: say a kid on a shared computer is serial BLP vandalizing, an admin blocks and cites a policy that says "you're indefed and never come back", the kid turns off the power and goes to bed. Parent comes in, turns it on and gets a new IP address. Later the kid can edit freely, and the help pages all still encourages it. How does the kid know that they haven't been forgiven?
[23:03] <Dcoetzee> Deathly: That was in Spain
[23:03] <Dcoetzee> I heard that story
[23:03] <Peter-C> Yes, that was not thought out xD
[23:03] <Dcoetzee> Peter-C: If you're going to troll for sex there are other channels for that :-P
[23:04] <Deathly> 100%daddydaughterasciipr0n
[23:04] <Peter-C> No, it ust occured to me I just to happen to turn 16 in 1 week and 1 day >_>
[23:04] <Dcoetzee> Peter-C: Early happy birthday btw:-)
[23:04] <Deathly> err, #100%daddydaughterasciipr0n
�03[23:04] * raindrift (~Adium@70-36-146-69.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) has joined #wikipedia-en
[23:04] <tashir> sheesh you people get your mind out of the gutter, I'm trying to make you think about real policy stuff that probably happens every day
�15[23:04] * raindrift (~Adium@70-36-146-69.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) Quit (Changing host�)
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[23:04] <Peter-C> I always forget my birthday because this is when teachers go CRAZY with giving out work
[23:04] <tashir> maybe I should try later
[23:04] <Peter-C> And thanks :)
[23:05] <Deathly> policies are for politicians and bureaucrats, and both will always be there tomorrow
[23:05] <Dcoetzee> tashir: Editing from IP?
[23:05] <tashir> yeah
[23:05] <tashir> that's the most common case I think with shared computers in a family household
[23:05] <Deathly> ip bans are obsolete
[23:05] <thingg> Maid: XD XD
[23:05] <Dcoetzee> tashir: They won't. That's the problem with IPs. Either they'll learn their lesson or eventually the whole IP block will get a block.
[23:06] <Dcoetzee> That has nothing to do with shared computers.
[23:06] <Dcoetzee> It's about dynamic IPs.
[23:06] <Deathly> everyone has access to dynamic ips
[23:06] <Peter-C> Hey! In 8 days I can do OTRS! As if they will let me in :P
[23:06] <Deathly> or with a credit card, aws elastic ips for a ubuntu instance, running a ssh tunnel
[23:06] <Dcoetzee> Dynamic IPs change all on their own, they don't need parents to do it.
[23:06] <tashir> but that doesn't necessarily happen. The kid can't tell the difference between being blocked on an old IP (not indef, just lengthy, sorry) and being forgiven
[23:06] <Deathly> you gonna block all of amazon?
[23:07] <thingg> heck yes
[23:07] <thingg> :P
[23:07] <Dcoetzee> tashir: That's why IP blocks are only done for active problems.
�06[23:07] * jdelanoy once seriously considered blocking AOL
[23:07] <slakr> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Tool_apprenticeship#Not_so_sure_about_this... <--- my thoughts.
[23:07] <jdelanoy> as in all of it
[23:07] <Dcoetzee> slakr: Thanks :-)
[23:07] <Dcoetzee> slakr: Appreciate your feedback.
[23:07] <thingg> heh
[23:07] <slakr> I bet you do :P
[23:07] <Deathly> my cellphone does dynamic IPs
[23:07] <slakr> ;)
[23:07] <jdelanoy> Peter-C: if you live in (most of) the USA, I'd be more excited that you can drive
�06[23:07] * slakr huggles Dcoetzee
[23:07] <thingg> don;t they have a /8?
�06[23:08] * slakr offers beer
�06[23:08] * Dcoetzee hugs slakr
�06[23:08] * Dcoetzee lets you keep beer, has hot chocolate :-)
[23:08] <Deathly> most people these days have access to multiple subnets
[23:08] <slakr> mmmm
[23:08] <Peter-C> jdelanoy - I live in NJ, I get my permit next month though, I need 6 hours of on road instruction before I get my permit
�06[23:08] * slakr loves hot chocolate + cheez-its.
[23:08] <slakr> + marshmallows
[23:08] <Dcoetzee> Whoa I never even thought of mixing those
[23:08] <Deathly> and if they can't do it with IPv4, there's always IPv6
[23:08] <Dcoetzee> GENIUS
[23:08] <SigmaWP> Who here knows python?
[23:08] <Tannerbaum> Peter-C: I could've gotten my permit last year
[23:09] <Dcoetzee> SigmaWP: <--
[23:09] <Peter-C> I hate you all
�06[23:09] * slakr swats at SigmaWP
[23:09] <SigmaWP> Dcoetzee: Other than me.
[23:09] <Dcoetzee> SigmaWP: I meant me
[23:09] <tashir> there's a similar set of policy dilemmas with beginning (e.g. second) language learners. But with them it's not so much vandalism and BLP as it is NOR and WP:V
[23:09] <Dcoetzee> Sorry, arrow was pointing through
[23:09] <SigmaWP> Oh, well the arrow.... nevermind
[23:09] <Peter-C> It will be 2 years, and 1 week, and 50 minutes until I can get my FULL license...
[23:09] <tashir> SigmaWP: I know a little
[23:10] <tashir> has anyone ever tried to teach a grade schooler to edit?
�03[23:10] * Daley (~Daley@210.1.192.84) has joined #wikipedia-en
[23:10] <tashir> um, primary schooler/ K-6 I mean
[23:11] <tashir> I have no idea what that is in UK moon language school grade names
[23:11] <Peter-C> I started to edit in 6th grade :3
[23:11] <tashir> by yourself?
[23:11] <Peter-C> mhm
[23:11] <jdelanoy> tashir: yes, in 2009. But they ended up getting blocked :(
[23:11] <Earwig> SigmaWP: yeah?
[23:11] <tashir> aww
[23:11] <SigmaWP> Earwig: Nevermind, Dcoetzee beat you
[23:12] <tashir> I'm pretty sure kids get blocked a lot.
[23:12] <Earwig> ...but he didn't do anything :(
[23:12] <Peter-C> I didn't get blocked...
[23:12] <SigmaWP> He pointed at himself.
[23:12] <Peter-C> just pointing out teens can edit too :P
[23:12] <Maid> My school district has always been blocked from editing
[23:12] <SigmaWP> Maid: lucky
[23:12] <tashir> tsk
[23:12] <Deathly> I don't think i should man, i mean i can only get 2 fingers in, maybe i should wait until she's 6.
[23:12] <Deathly> oops wrong window
[23:12] <Maid> I got one of my friend's college blocked from wikipedia though
[23:12] <Maid> \o/
[23:13] <Deathly> ^
�15[23:13] * Resfirestar (sam@wikipedia/Res2216firestar) Quit (Quit: Leaving�)
[23:13] <Maid> (By reverting/reporting it)
[23:13] <Maid> Not by vandalising from it :P
[23:13] <tashir> Maid: how old were you when you first tried to edit?
[23:13] <Dcoetzee> Maid: That's why I always vandalize using my friends' computers :-P
�03[23:13] * Ks0stm|Away is now known as Ks0stm
[23:13] <SigmaWP> alternatively, you can just vandalise conservapedia :D
�06[23:13] * Daley was 26.
[23:13] <Deathly> i always set up proxies on my friends computers
[23:13] <Maid> tashir, 16 is when I made my account. I first tried to edit ~11 in middle school
[23:13] <Deathly> so i can do it from remote
[23:14] <Dcoetzee> SigmaWP: Please do not encourage vandalism of Conservapedia :-P
[23:14] <tashir> cool!
[23:14] <Dcoetzee> They do an excellent job of discrediting themselves without our help.
[23:14] <Deathly> Conservapedia is awesome
[23:14] <Deathly> i dont know what you mean
[23:14] <Maid> Never log in on a school computer though :P
[23:14] <jdelanoy> conservapedia makes my parents laugh
[23:14] <Maid> Someone made a vandal edit on my account because of that. >>'
[23:15] <Dcoetzee> Maid: Uh oh :-/ Left yourself logged in by mistake?
[23:15] <tashir> my daughter added a youtube video as an external link to a biology article when she was 7. I was in the room helping, but I wasn't looking at the keyboard or the screen. It took about 15 minutes.
[23:15] <SigmaWP> Maid: There goes your RfA
[23:15] <Maid> Well, printed something off and left it unattended for a few minutes
[23:15] <Tannerbaum> jdelanoy: so, what are you majoring in?
[23:15] <Addihockey10> Maid: You watch porn at school?
[23:15] <Maid> Of course
[23:15] <jdelanoy> Tannerbaum: computer science
[23:15] <Tannerbaum> s/are you/are you almost finished
[23:15] <Tannerbaum> ah
[23:15] <Dcoetzee> My first edits were at... 23 as I recall.
[23:15] <Peter-C> A tomahawk missle costs ~1 million dollars. For that just 1/4 of that I would kill myself.... Jesus Christ that is a lot for a missle...
[23:15] <jdelanoy> Tannerbaum: I have two finals, then I'm done
[23:15] <Deathly> i'm suprised someone hasnt used one of these 100k member botnets to spam advertising text on wp
[23:15] <Dcoetzee> Peter-C: Blowing shit up ain't cheap
[23:16] <Tannerbaum> Peter-C: you'd kill yourself for $250k?
[23:16] <jdelanoy> unless I do spectacularly bad (like, get a 20), I'll have my degree entered in their system in a couple of weeks
[23:16] <Maid> Deathly, don't jinx us
[23:16] <Deathly> :3
[23:16] <SigmaWP> Good bye
[23:16] <Peter-C> Tannerbaum - yep
[23:16] <SigmaWP> Demiurge1000: Bye
[23:16] <Deathly> just wishfull thinking
[23:16] <Dcoetzee> jdelanoy: Grats!
[23:16] <Tannerbaum> Peter-C: you can't take money with you when you die, you know
[23:16] <Demiurge1000> SigmaWP: Goodnight
[23:16] <Dcoetzee> jdelanoy: Exciting!
[23:16] <jdelanoy> :D
[23:16] <SigmaWP> :D
[23:16] <SigmaWP> jdelanoy: Bye
[23:16] <Peter-C> Tannerbaum - it would go to my family
[23:16] <SigmaWP> Have fun with the bacon dispenser :P
[23:16] <Peter-C> adios
�15[23:16] * SigmaWP (~coalball@wikipedia/Lowercase-Sigma) Quit (Quit: Connecticut12�)
[23:16] <jdelanoy> um, bye...?
[23:16] <Dcoetzee> Tannerbaum: Maybe in his religion he can?
[23:16] <tashir> lol
[23:16] <jdelanoy> >.>
[23:16] <Tannerbaum> jdelanoy: anything specific?
[23:17] <Dcoetzee> Maybe in his religion, you go to heaven if you earn at least $250K before death.
[23:17] <jdelanoy> well, it's undergrad, so not really
[23:17] <Daley> When I die, I'm going to leave whatever is left to wikipedia, even it maybe useless junk.
[23:17] <Tannerbaum> i mean, what do you plan on doing after you graduate?
[23:17] <jdelanoy> oh
[23:17] <jdelanoy> no idea
[23:17] <Tannerbaum> program? IT stuff?
[23:17] <jdelanoy> at all
[23:17] <jdelanoy> whatsoever
[23:17] <Tannerbaum> ah
[23:17] <jdelanoy> :P
�06[23:17] * jdelanoy spent all his time in college trying to get it done
[23:17] <Dcoetzee> jdelanoy: You should become a software developer for a travelling circus
[23:17] <Dcoetzee> See the world
[23:17] <Tannerbaum> I can't decide between programming and system administration
[23:17] <jdelanoy> never really took time to think what I will do next
[23:17] <jdelanoy> Dcoetzee: lol
[23:18] <jdelanoy> that would be awesome
[23:18] <Tannerbaum> i think I like the latter more
[23:18] <TParis> Tannerbaum: Neither. I've done both and I can tell you that users in both jobs make you wanna go postal.
[23:18] <Dcoetzee> Tannerbaum: IMO system administration involves somewhat less creativity and more dealing with idiots.
[23:18] <Dcoetzee> Tannerbaum: Not a big fan :-P
�06[23:19] * thingg would strangle people if he did system admin all the time
�03[23:19] * Deathly (~deathly@069-064-236-042.pdx.net) has left #wikipedia-en
[23:19] <thingg> like deathly here :P
[23:19] <Tannerbaum> Dcoetzee: yeah, i'm not exactly creative
�15[23:19] * Betacommand (~Betacomma@unaffiliated/betacommand) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer�)
[23:20] <Tannerbaum> and after dealing tech support for 2 years...
[23:20] <Dcoetzee> Tannerbaum: But are you a people person?
[23:20] <thingg> Tannerbaum: you could take programming and then you would have the option to do either programming or sysadmin after school.
[23:20] <Dcoetzee> If you did tech support for 2 years you must be pretty patient :-)
�03[23:20] * Betacommand (~Betacomma@unaffiliated/betacommand) has joined #wikipedia-en
[23:20] <Dcoetzee> It's even worse.
[23:20] <Tannerbaum> Dcoetzee: IRL http://store.xkcd.com/xkcd/#JustShy describes me
[23:21] <Tannerbaum> Online it (obviously) doesn't
[23:21] <Dcoetzee> Ah I see
[23:22] <Tannerbaum> I can probably get over that by the time I graduate from uni though
�15[23:23] * CMBJ (cf770661@gateway/web/freenode/ip.207.119.6.97) Quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds�)
[23:23] <Gfoley4> .
�03[23:23] * otakutomo (~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp) has joined #wikipedia-en
[23:24] <Maid> Gfoley4, Dot to you too.
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[23:31] <tashir> hi {Soap} !
�15[23:31] * Mifter (~chatzilla@Wikimedia/Mifter) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds�)
[23:31] <{Soap}> hi
[23:31] <tashir> "unlink date per date unlinking" -- need more coffee for better edit summaries
�15[23:32] * Daley (~Daley@210.1.192.84) Quit
[23:32] <Dcoetzee> Heh
�06[23:33] * Dcoetzee edits [[recursion]], leaves edit summary: "Linking recursion - see [[recursion]]"
[23:33] <jorm> good evening, nerds.
[23:33] <thingg> noooooooooo
[23:33] <thingg> hey jorm
[23:33] <tashir> hi jorm!!
�06[23:34] * Dcoetzee waves hi to jorm
�06[23:34] * thingg bro-hugs jorm
[23:36] <tashir> when moving a hyphenated article name to an en-dashed article, is it traditional to completely blow off and repress anything having to do with categories and the interwikis?
[23:36] <Dcoetzee> tashir: Wha?
�15[23:37] * Earwig (~Earwig@wikipedia/The-Earwig) Quit (Quit: Earwig�)
[23:37] <tashir> Dcoetzee: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heriot-Watt_University
[23:38] <tashir> I just broke some of the images and redlinks
[23:38] <tashir> Sven is GA-reviewing it and mentioned the dashes
[23:39] <tashir> I was smart enough to not clobber the interwikis and categories, but not the other redlinks
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[23:39] <foks> uh
[23:39] <foks> Why would you need an ndash in that title
[23:39] <tashir> manual of style?
[23:39] <tashir> is it properly hyphenated?
[23:39] <tashir> please say yes
[23:39] <foks> It's a hyphen.
[23:39] <Dcoetzee> tashir: I see, search and replace trouble
[23:39] <foks> Not a dash.
[23:39] <tashir> oh thank goodness
[23:40] <Addihockey10> foks: :(
[23:40] <foks> "An en dash is not used for a hyphenated personal name."
[23:40] <Dcoetzee> The uni is named after two people isn't it?
[23:40] <Addihockey10> foks! Are you here?
[23:41] <Addihockey10> Simple wiki emergency!
[23:41] <foks> no
[23:41] <foks> Dcoetzee, Lennard-Jones potential with a hyphen: named after John Lennard-Jones
[23:41] <foks> I don't know.
�03[23:42] * Addihockey10 is now known as Addi|afk
[23:42] <tashir> Dcoetzee: yes. AH! There are other dashes used as punctuation, my mistake
[23:42] <Dcoetzee> George Heriot, James Watt
[23:42] <Dcoetzee> That's who it's name after
[23:42] <tashir> if it were up to me en dashes would only be used in setting tables of numbers and nowhere else
[23:43] <Dcoetzee> In the dash debate I'm a big fan of editability over presentability. :-P
�03[23:43] * Suiseiseki is now known as Venusaur
[23:43] <Dcoetzee> Except in templates. Those are okay.
[23:43] <Dcoetzee> (cause nobody unskilled is going to edit those anyway)
�08[23:44] * derp licks Dcoetzee
�06[23:44] * Dcoetzee huggles derp
�08[23:44] * derp huggles Dcoetzee tightly.
[23:44] <Dcoetzee> Hey :-) How're you?
�08[23:45] <derp> Great thanks you?
[23:45] <Addi|afk> derp
�08[23:45] <derp> wut
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[23:48] <Dcoetzee> derp: Okay thanks :-) Miffed at the moment at a kidney stone but I'll survive.
[23:48] <Dcoetzee> Excited about going to NZ in a week
�06[23:49] * slakr gives Dcoetzee plenty of water
[23:49] <Addi|afk> derp: I don't feel as if I know you take up all my timne.
[23:49] <Dcoetzee> slakr: Thanks. I've been drinking plenty of water. :-/ Dunno what else it wants from me.
[23:50] <slakr> well I mean, the best cure for kidney stones is prevention
�06[23:50] * slakr is trying to prevent the new ones from forming
�15[23:50] * IShadowed (~IShadowed@wikimedia/IShadowed) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds�)
[23:51] <tashir> does anyone know the reference for the capital-I in Infobox joke?
[23:51] <Dcoetzee> slakr: Yeah I know :-) I've been drinking like an elephant, I doubt I'll get a new one. But this one's been hanging out for like months now. It's frustrating.
[23:51] <slakr> I have wondered whether hard water also contributes to kidney stones
�15[23:51] * albel727 (~albel727@unaffiliated/albel727) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds�)
[23:51] <slakr> (especially once they've started forming)
�06[23:52] * slakr has no clue
[23:52] <Dcoetzee> Nobody seems to have a clue what contributes to them. :-/ I don't even know the composition of mine cause it won't come out to get analysed
[23:52] <tashir> no, it's metabolic http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21730811
[23:52] <slakr> well I mean, one article on nih != the end-all-be-all
[23:52] <slakr> same goes for pubmed. :P
[23:53] <{Soap}> for some people, drinking lots of water at mealtime will help
[23:53] <tashir> it's protein related; "There is no evidence of any rise in the risk of stone formation in relation to dietary calcium intake or tap water hardness." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11132032
[23:54] <slakr> yeah, that was what I was about to say (about protein)
[23:54] <slakr> depening on the amino acid composition of the protein you're taking in
[23:54] <tashir> well now you have two secondary peer reviewed literature reviews with which to edit [[kidney stone]]
[23:55] <slakr> and the problem with calcium intake
[23:55] <slakr> is that just "taking calcium" or having something "with calcium in it"
[23:55] <slakr> doesn't mean it's going to be absorbed effectively at all
[23:55] <slakr> it does best when it's emulsified in fat
[23:55] <slakr> or other hydrophobic stuff iirc
[23:55] <tashir> any calcium which is not absorbed gets excreted in feces
[23:55] <tashir> not urine
[23:56] <slakr> yes, this is true
�03[23:56] * thehope_ (~thehope@116-64-200-99.rev.home.ne.jp) has joined #wikipedia-en
[23:56] <slakr> by very definition, if something is excreted in urine it's been absorbed. :P
[23:56] <Dcoetzee> Keep in mind "no evidence" doesn't mean "it is not the case that". But it does mean that you shouldn't you shouldn't believe it's true :-P
�06[23:56] * tashir nods
�03[23:56] * Addi|afk is now known as Hello
[23:56] <slakr> out of curiosity, do you eat a lot of soy?
[23:56] <thehope_> hi
[23:57] <Hello> slakr: Fuck yeah
[23:57] <slakr> (@Dcoetzee)
[23:57] <tashir> well, clearly the calcium has to come from somewhere. Almost all was originally intake, except what you got from your mom's placenta
[23:57] <slakr> :P
�06[23:57] * slakr ^5 to Hello as well :P
[23:57] <Dcoetzee> slakr: I don't eat a lot of soy. Mostly grain. Cause I'm really really poor right now :-P
[23:57] <tashir> and that was her intake, so of course you're right
[23:57] <Dcoetzee> Living on ~$600/mo.
[23:57] <slakr> yeah, but do you normally
[23:57] <tashir> ah HA! more evidence for my admins-need-money hypothesis!
[23:57] <Hello> slakr: It's good to be back - it's good to be back.
[23:57] <slakr> (or did you for months/years before your stones
[23:58] <Dcoetzee> Hmm before my stone I did eat out a lot more often.
[23:58] <Dcoetzee> But not soy so much
[23:58] <slakr> ah ok n/m then
[23:58] <Dcoetzee> I have a family history (like, everyone in my direct family), so there's that.
[23:58] <slakr> I've heard some stuff about issues with soy and kidney stones if you're not drinking enough wayter
[23:58] <slakr> water*
[23:58] <slakr> ah
[23:59] <Dcoetzee> I'm surprised I got them though because I've always been a thirsty person. I drink water like every minute of the day.
[23:59] <slakr> so you might just have some smaller renal tubules or something
[23:59] <Dcoetzee> Yeah possibly. My brother's didn't get stuck for this long.
Session Close: Sat Dec 10 00:00:01 2011
