User:Badmachine/wikipedia-en-2012-08-03

--- Log opened Fri Aug 03 00:29:10 2012
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00:31 < LtNOWIS> I'm glad we have a timeline of national flags, but some sort of wizard or table where you put in a year and it spits out all the ones that shouldn't be contemporary might be better
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00:32 < LtNOWIS> I had no idea all these Caribbean countries changed their flags in the past 10 years
00:34 < LtNOWIS> And Lithuania, geeze
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00:38 < LtNOWIS> any Template:Country data experts here?
00:38 < LtNOWIS> ah wait never mind
00:39 < LtNOWIS> actually yeah, I think Ethiopia's is messed up
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00:50 < LtNOWIS> alright I'm too tired for this.
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02:10 < Sp33dyphil> I got a question
02:14 < Sp33dyphil> nvm
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02:41 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Sp33dyphil I got an answer
02:41 < ToAruShiroiNeko> nvm
02:42 < ToAruShiroiNeko> :P
02:42 < Sp33dyphil> :P
02:42 < Sp33dyphil> Good to see you too.
02:42 < ToAruShiroiNeko> yay
02:44 < Sp33dyphil> ToAruShiroiNeko: fwiw, i'm racing against time to see [[Galaxy S3]] though to FA before 12 September
02:49 < foks> Why then?
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03:54 < closedmouth> hmm, netsplit
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04:07 < Wiki13_> wtf is happening here, this is the second time in a few minutes my internet is playing with me :|
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04:48  * ToAruShiroiNeko plays with you
04:49 < wctaiwan> I like how this software gives the transfer rate as as 1.24e+03 KB/s.
04:49 < wctaiwan> it's so wonderfully pointless.
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04:53 < wctaiwan> http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/08/microsoft-metro-out-windows-8-style-ui-in-amid-rumors-of-a-trademark-dispute/ wait what?
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05:27 < qqqqqqqq> hi
05:28 < petan> hello
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05:30 < LikeLakers2> apparently I cant connect via xchat to freenode
05:30 < LikeLakers2> even with "Accept invalid SSL certificate" on, I still get * Connection failed. Error: certificate not trusted.? (27)
05:31 < petan> LikeLakers2 try #freenode
05:31  * LikeLakers2 wonders why it can't just ask if I still want to allow it
05:31 < LikeLakers2> ok
05:31 < gry> #xchat could be worth a try
05:31 < petan> or that
05:31 < LikeLakers2> well, I dont think XChat is really much to blame
05:31 < wctaiwan> LikeLakers2: I've never got an invalid SSL certificate with freenode
05:31 < gry> not like #freenode is a channel full of xchat users, more of people who would just do a web search :-)
05:31 < wctaiwan> are you sure you didn't type an incorrect server?
05:31 < gry> (it could also work, but not as reliable)
05:32 < LikeLakers2> I'm sure
05:32 < wctaiwan> Time to try installing Mountain Lion... again
05:32  * wctaiwan waves his install disc threateningly
05:32 < LikeLakers2> I've only editted the port for the server
05:32 < gry> which is 6697
05:32 < gry> for ssl
05:32 < LikeLakers2> yes I know
05:33 < gry> then it would just work, or the client is classified as Annoying
05:33 < LikeLakers2> also, when connecting to ASoTnet, which is a server my friend runs
05:33 < gry> which quassel isn't
05:33 < LikeLakers2> * * Verify E: unable to verify the first certificate.? (21) -- Ignored
05:33 < gry> but again, thats exactly why #xchat exists
05:34 < LikeLakers2> yeah, I have AndroIRC set to SSL on freenode too
05:34 < LikeLakers2> have to allow the cert, but it still gives me an option to bypass the fact that the cert is invalid
05:35 < wctaiwan> gah. Startup key combinations almost never work.
05:35  * wctaiwan sighs, changes startup volume
05:37 < LikeLakers2> lawl
05:37 < LikeLakers2> I just enabled smaller text for the channel switcher
05:37 < LikeLakers2> says I need a restart for changes to take effect
05:37 < LikeLakers2> but apparently it becomes smaller whenever an event happens
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05:39 < wctaiwan> okay now it's taking awfully long to boot
05:39 < wctaiwan> does that mean it's working?
05:40  * wctaiwan stares hopefully
05:40 < mareklug> first boot took v. long and there was a beachball
05:40 < wctaiwan> not first boot. Trying to boot from the install disc
05:41 < wctaiwan> now I'm getting the apple + spinner screen. Who knows what awaits at the end...
05:41 < wctaiwan> maybe there is no light at the end of the tunnel. Maybe it's just New Jersey.
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05:41 < wctaiwan> - Jon Stewart
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05:42 < wctaiwan> the screen just turned white
05:42  * wctaiwan is excited!!11!11
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05:43 < wctaiwan> okay, it booted into the installer. Hopefully it actually works this time...
05:43 < wctaiwan> You all love my play-by-play of the installation process, right? right? >.>
05:43 < mareklug> it will probably take upwards of an hour to install, as it took over 38 minutes to do so from hard disk
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05:44 < wctaiwan> yeah, for some reason Snow Leopard installed far more quickly...
05:44 < wctaiwan> actually it's possible that it has copied all of the DVD to the hard drive by this point, judging from how long it took to get to this point...
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05:46 < wctaiwan> booyeah. Further along the install process than I ever got yesterday.
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05:58 < wctaiwan> hm. My laptop charges remarkably quickly.
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06:15 < wctaiwan> 39 minutes, mareklug, from start to finish.
06:15 < wctaiwan> so the DVD doesn't make much of a difference...
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06:19 < KimiSleep> Hullo
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06:22 < mareklug> wctaiwan:  not bad then
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06:29 < wctaiwan> Ironholds! just the man I was looking for.
06:29 < wctaiwan> indeed
06:29 < Ironholds> wctaiwan! Wassup?
06:30 < wctaiwan> I'll PM you
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06:36 < KimiSleep> Ironholds
06:36 < KimiSleep> can you do me a favor?
06:36 < Ironholds> depends, what is it?
06:36 < KimiSleep> check if I'm online on facebook
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06:37 < Ironholds> sure!
06:37  * Ironholds goes to load up t'book
06:37 < Ironholds> nope
06:37 < KimiSleep> Good
06:37 < Ironholds> sez you can be accessed via the mobile app
06:38 < KimiSleep> That I'm connected via mobile?
06:38 < Ironholds> just that you have the mobile app
06:39 < KimiSleep> Oh.
06:39 < KimiSleep> Good
06:39 < KimiSleep> Can you check again in approx. 2 minutes?
06:39 < Ironholds> sure
06:40 < LtNOWIS> So do we use the taliban flag in sports tournaments articles, etc. from 1997 to 2001?
06:41 < KimiSleep> right about now would do
06:41 < LtNOWIS> (the answer is apparently no)
06:42 < LtNOWIS> I guess they weren't at the 2000 or '98 Olympics
06:43 < Soapy> did the athletes all have 12-inch-long beards ?
06:43 < Soapy> as that supposedly was required for all adult males
06:44 < Soapy> and for some sports would look pretty silly
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06:44 < LtNOWIS> It's the 33rd Chess Olympiad
06:45 < LtNOWIS> They weren't in any Olympics during the Taliban period.
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06:45 < wctaiwan> o/ foks.
06:46 < foks> hi!
06:46 < Soapy> ok
06:47 < Soapy> maybe they were afraid they might be contaminated by all those filthy infidels
06:47 < LtNOWIS> And didn't enter the '98 world cup, understandibly
06:47 < LtNOWIS> considering the Taliban wasn't even really fully in control when the quals started
06:48 < Dcoetzee> Even the Taliban holding the Olympics probably wouldn't be uncomfortable as Nazi Germany hosting the Olympics was :-P
06:48 < Soapy> 1936 munich olumpis
06:48 < Soapy> no
06:49 < Soapy> where was it"
06:49 < Soapy> Berlin?
06:49 < mareklug> berlin
06:49 < mareklug> 1972 munich
06:49 < Dcoetzee> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1936_Summer_Olympics
06:49 < Soapy> looks like they had both winter and summer Olympics events in Germany in 1936
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06:50 < Soapy> Hitler saw the Games as an opportunity to promote his government and ideals of racial supremacy, and did not want Jews or Blacks to be allowed to participate in the Games. However, when threatened with a boycott of the Games by other nations, he relented and allowed Blacks and Jews
06:50 < Soapy> to participate, and added one token participant to the German team--a German woman, Helene Mayer, who had a Jewish father. At the same time, the party removed signs stating "Jews not wanted" and similar slogans from the city's main tourist attractions.
06:50 < Soapy> even hitler's hatred was not more powerful than his desire for money
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06:51 < Soapy> The next scheduled games in 1940 were awarded to Tokyo even though Japan was becoming an aggressive militaristic, nationalist state. Ironically in 1938 the Japanese rejected hosting the games because they saw the Olympics and its pacifist values as 'an effete form of European culture'.
06:52 < Soapy> So much irony in that
06:52 < mareklug> Hitler was also personally loyal.  there is a recent news story about how he protected his former  WWI commander who was Jewish
06:52 < Soapy> was that commander a Nazi?
06:52 < Soapy> because I mean I know there were some Jewish Nazis, though ovbiously not many
06:52 < mareklug> did not read.  he was probably an old man by that time
06:53 < Soapy> ok
06:53 < LtNOWIS> There were no Nazis in WWI
06:53 < Soapy> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Moritz_Hess
06:53 < Soapy> well he died in 1983
06:53 < mareklug> well, some could have become nazi later
06:53 < Soapy> so must have been alive and well during WW2
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06:53 < Forgiveme> Sorry
06:54 -!- Anurag2k12 [~Anurag2k1@64.229.153.211] has joined #wikipedia-en
06:54 < Ironholds> Forgiveme: no idea who you are, dear.
06:55 < Soapy> he was surely not a Nazi
06:55 < Soapy> it seems Hitler ultimately betrayed even him
06:56 < Dcoetzee> "The sportive, knightly battle awakens the best human characteristics. It doesn't separate, but unites the combatants in understanding and respect. It also helps to connect the countries in the spirit of peace. That's why the Olympic Flame should never die." - Adolf Hitler
06:56 < LtNOWIS> This is what happens when you google image search "33rd Chess Olympiad afghanistan:" http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RuWamYGsh9c/0.jpg
06:57 < Soapy> good match
06:57 < Forgiveme> I am so sorry
06:57 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [+o foks] by ChanServ
06:57 < Forgiveme> I have made a mistake
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06:57 < Soapy> '33rd' seems to be the only term that matches
06:57 < KimiSleep> Ironholds - did you check?
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06:58 < Soapy> hi Avruch
06:58 < Dcoetzee> Soapy: I'd take out the term 33rd, it's too specific
06:58 -!- D1000|Away is now known as Demiurge1000
06:59 < Soapy> Dennis Brown changed protection level of Tree ?[edit=sysop] (expires 13:54, 10 August 2012 (UTC)): [[WP:PP#Content disputes|Edit warring / Content dispute]]  <--- really?
06:59 < Soapy> we're fighting over trees now?
06:59 < Dcoetzee> ...
07:00 < Demiurge1000> Tree shaping! Right up there with ethnic cleansing and whether moussaka is a turkish or armenian dish!
07:00 < mareklug> LtNOWIS:  what about this?  is it the same olympiad? http://www.chessage.com/database/bundesliga.php/id/OL04/team/200
07:00 < Soapy> personally I'd consider it Greek, because of the spelling
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07:00 < Soapy> though sure I know that Greeks got many of their food dishes from other countries
07:01 < LtNOWIS> mareklug: That was post-Taliban
07:01 < Soapy> moussak? = obvious Greek word
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07:01 < Soapy> Pizza is Greek too
07:01 < mareklug> LtNOWIS:  still, that site might be helpful
07:01 < Demiurge1000> yeah, I chose a bad example... there's a better one that's Israeli/Lebanese, but I forget what it is
07:01 < LtNOWIS> yeah, I'll check it out
07:01 < petan> eh, did I just part? or it's a bug in my client...
07:01 < Soapy> petan: yes
07:01 < petan> meh
07:03 < Soapy> come to think, i wonder what WP can teach me about the origins of pizza
07:03 < Soapy> After its invention in Naples, the dish has become popular in many parts of the world.[1] An establishment that makes and sells pizzas is called a "pizzeria".  <--- NOOOOOO!! it really is Italian after all
07:03 < Soapy> oh wait
07:03 < Soapy> heh
07:03 < Soapy> the very next paragraph says its Greek
07:03 < Soapy> dont you love when WP contradicts itself in the same article
07:04 < LtNOWIS> Hmm, I guess the Taliban banned chess
07:04 < Soapy> ok, I guess "modern" pizza is Italian
07:04 < Dcoetzee> Soapy: Short story on [[Tree]]: [[User:Cwmhiraeth]] did a complete rewrite of [[Tree]], and [[User:Mark Marathon]] thought it was terrible and reverted. [[User:Drmies]] didn't look too closely at the history and saw it as unexplained removal + adding spam links.
07:04 < Soapy> that's fair
07:04 < LtNOWIS> apparently it was a form of gambling...
07:04 < Dcoetzee> And the two of them had a revert war leading to protection.
07:04 < TeeTylerToe> How did people know when to buy gifts for baby showers before 4G cellular technology?
07:05 < mareklug> TeeTylerToe:  they got snail mail invitations to baby showers
07:06 < Soapy> phones are 120 years old
07:06 < Soapy> no big change
07:06 < TeeTylerToe> There's an AT&T ad that doesn't seem to understand that babies don't just occur randomly like zits or something
07:06 < Soapy> ah lol
07:06 < Soapy> sarcasm then
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07:07 < Soapy> can you link me to that ad? or is it on TV?
07:08 < TeeTylerToe> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzTy9_xS1yA
07:08 < TeeTylerToe> it's played a lot on comedy central's web player.  Sometimes twice during one break
07:09 < Soapy> lol
07:09 < Soapy> Ive seen that ad, but I was busy and didnt get to watch it closelyt
07:09 < Soapy> thanks : )
07:09 < Soapy> they have 2801 videos wow
07:10 < Soapy> finally, someone who understands that there are people who actually like commercials
07:10 < KimiSleep> IT WORKSS
07:10 < KimiSleep> I am a genius
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07:11  * Demiurge1000 too.
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07:12 < KimiSleep> I'm thinking of making
07:12 < KimiSleep> a "stalker toolkit"
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07:12 < KimiSleep> Like metasploit
07:13 < KimiSleep> but for cyberstalkers
07:13 < KimiSleep> all-legal
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07:16 < wctaiwan> hey Demiurge1000.
07:16 < Demiurge1000> hi
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07:53 < Dragonfly6-7> anyone here have a Times account?
07:57 < ToAruShiroiNeko> I have time but no times
07:57 < ToAruShiroiNeko> :p
07:57 < ToAruShiroiNeko> thyme
07:57  * Dragonfly6-7 sets fire to ToAruShiroiNeko
07:58  * ToAruShiroiNeko is fired
08:03 < mareklug> Sharapova in the final
08:03 -!- WhiskerBiscuit [~WhiskerBi@c-69-143-22-168.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
08:03 < WhiskerBiscuit> Hey all
08:04 < WhiskerBiscuit> Since I haven't created too many articles, I was wondering if there are any good tools or stubs to help me get started
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08:04 < WhiskerBiscuit> Trying to create a stub for a regional fast food restaraunt
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08:06 < TeeTylerToe> look up other restaurant chain articles and copy the templates and things from that
08:08 < Dragonfly6-7> WhiskerBiscuit - let me ask you a few questions first
08:09 < WhiskerBiscuit> sure
08:09 < WhiskerBiscuit> TeeTylerToe: thats what im doing
08:09 < Dragonfly6-7> WhiskerBiscuit - first, are you in any way connected to this chain? If you are, that does NOT mean you can't write the article
08:09 < Dragonfly6-7> but it's important to know
08:09 < WhiskerBiscuit> Nope, havent even eat there
08:09 < WhiskerBiscuit> eaten
08:09 < Dragonfly6-7> okay
08:10 < WhiskerBiscuit> its a dying chain, but notable for the local community
08:10 < Dragonfly6-7> you have written articles before, though?
08:10 < WhiskerBiscuit> only a few
08:10 < Dragonfly6-7> Oh? Okay. What's the chain called?
08:10 < WhiskerBiscuit> I like to put em out and watch the gnomes go to work :)
08:10 < mareklug> um, it might not be notable as a corporation then
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08:11 < Dragonfly6-7> WhiskerBiscuit - how old is the chain? How many franchises do they have; how many did they have at their peak?
08:11 < Dragonfly6-7> how widespread were they ?
08:11 < WhiskerBiscuit> Dragonfly6-7: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Fasttimes68/Pollock_Johnny&pe=1&
08:11 < WhiskerBiscuit> regional to baltimore
08:11 < Soapy> help help
08:11 < Soapy> anyone here know Photoshop?
08:12 < TeeTylerToe> what do you need?
08:12 < Soapy> I dont remember how to use a gradient to make a selection
08:12 < Shirik> I do
08:12 < Shirik> oh
08:12 < WhiskerBiscuit> plenty of sourcess on it
08:12 < Shirik> that I do not
08:12 < mareklug> WhiskerBiscuit:  save your efforts.  this is not notable.
08:12 < Soapy> e.g. i want the pixels at the bottom of the picture 100% selected, halfway up 50% selected, and the top 0% selected
08:12 < Dragonfly6-7> mareklug - well, hold on.
08:12 < WhiskerBiscuit> Soapy: beg to difffer
08:12 < WhiskerBiscuit> plenty of references in baltimore sun
08:13 < Dragonfly6-7> WhiskerBiscuit - at their peak, how widespread were they?
08:13 < Shirik> are you sure you don't want to use a mask instead Soapy?
08:13 < TeeTylerToe> I understood some of those words
08:13 < Dragonfly6-7> they're *dying*, but ....?
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08:13 < Soapy> yeah
08:13 < Soapy>  a mask
08:14 < WhiskerBiscuit> not sure the exact peak number.  Still researching... but certainly not large.
08:14 < WhiskerBiscuit> Wasn't a franchise
08:14 < Soapy> I want to use a gradient to generate a selection mask
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08:14 < Soapy> I know it's possible, because I did it 2 years ago
08:14 < Shirik> I've never used masks for selection :/
08:15 < Soapy> I dont think I even really need a selection
08:15 < WhiskerBiscuit> are they accepting new applications for highbeam?  I need to get in on that
08:15 < Soapy> the mask by itself will do what I want
08:15 < Shirik> that's what I was saying
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08:16 < Soapy> grr
08:16 < Soapy> cant figure it out
08:17 < Soapy> I know it';s piossib;le
08:17 < Shirik> figure out what, how to make a mask?
08:17 < Soapy> yeah
08:17 < Soapy> I know it's possib;le
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08:17 < Shirik> what layer are you on right now?
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08:17 < Shirik> is it the background layer or is it a real layer?
08:18 < Soapy> Doesnt really matter
08:18 < Shirik> yes it does actually
08:18 < Soapy> but a real layer
08:18 < Shirik> ok
08:18 < Shirik> so click on that layer and there should be a layer mask button
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08:19 < Shirik> then you can create a gradient on that mask
08:19 < Shirik> and then that will fade with the layer right below it
08:19 < Soapy> is there a way to edit the layer mask, though?
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08:19 < Shirik> yes
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08:19 < Soapy> It's just givbing me the same as the layer below it
08:19 < Soapy> except in black and white
08:19 < Dragonfly6-7> WhiskerBiscuit - if they were a chain, then they had franchises. Isn't that what the terminology means?
08:20 < Shirik> oh
08:20 < WhiskerBiscuit> Dragonfly6-7: chain <> franchise
08:20 < Shirik> I forget if it defaults the mask to what's below
08:20 < Dragonfly6-7> a chain is all the franchises together, yes?
08:20 < WhiskerBiscuit> Franchises issue licenses
08:20 < Soapy> i guess the mask cannot be edited once it's placed
08:20 < Shirik> I usually do it with a blank layer below
08:20 < Shirik> no
08:20 < Shirik> you can edit it
08:20 < WhiskerBiscuit> Chain could be privately owned, or partnership
08:20 < Shirik> so there should be a layer mask icon on the layer now
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08:20 < Shirik> you can click it and there will be a black icon around it
08:20 < Shirik> and then you can edit it
08:21 < Shirik> in the same way you edit any other layer
08:21 < Soapy> Ok I know Ive seen this done before
08:22 < Soapy> but apparrntly you cant have a layer mask other than 100% black or 100% white in this version of Photoshop
08:22 < Soapy> its basically just "hide" or "show"
08:22 < Dragonfly6-7> WhiskerBiscuit - ah, thank you. Okay. Well, keep doing your research.
08:22 < Soapy> so you cant have a pixel 50% visible or anything
08:22 < Shirik> what version is this?
08:22 < Soapy> 5.5
08:22 < Soapy> I cant afford to upgrade
08:22 < Shirik> I have CS5 and it can do that
08:22 < Soapy> yeah I know
08:22 < Shirik> so I'm pretty sure you're ok :P
08:22 < Soapy> thats like 12 versions above me
08:22 < Shirik> oh
08:22 < Soapy> no, no
08:22 < Shirik> you mean real 5.5
08:22 < Soapy> the REAL 5.5
08:22 < Shirik> holy crap
08:22 < Soapy> yeah
08:22 < Soapy> : P
08:23 < Soapy> 5.5 has never failed me before
08:23 < Soapy> but this may be one actual difference between the new and the old
08:23 < Soapy> I apprecaite you trying to help though
08:23 < Soapy> Im *sure* that your method works on the new one
08:23 < Shirik> yeah that's before my time in photoshop
08:23 < Soapy> Not sure if it can be made to work on the older versions
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08:23 < Soapy> but even so
08:23 < Soapy> why would layer makss even exist if they couldnt do anything more than hide or show 100% ?
08:24 < TeeTylerToe> you might be able figure how to just do that one thing in gimp
08:24 < Soapy> im going to keep trying
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08:24 < Shirik> can you paint a gradient on the mask?
08:24 < Soapy> maybe
08:24 < Soapy> I dont see any way to be able to edit the mask
08:24 < Soapy> it's just either a white screen or a black one
08:25 < Shirik> that doesn't make much sense
08:25 < Shirik> that would kinda defeat the purpose of masks :P
08:26 < Soapy> I can choose "Show All" or "Hide All"
08:26 < Soapy> nothing in between
08:26 < Soapy> nor any way to edit it once it's placed
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08:28 < Dcoetzee> Searching for "gimp mask" really turns up the wrong thing :-P
08:29 < Soapy> wait
08:29 < Soapy> I figured it out !!!!!
08:29 < Dcoetzee> http://www.danielveazey.com/gimp/gimp-layer-mask/ Here is a tutorial
08:29 < Soapy> thank you
08:30 < Soapy> apparrnytly layer mask uses black for transparent
08:30 < Dcoetzee> Yes
08:30 < Soapy> so trying to draw a gradient from white to transparent does nothing if the mask is already 100%  white
08:30 < Soapy> but white to black works
08:30 < Soapy> ohhhhhhh that is so awesome ????
08:30 < Shirik> oh sorry did I not make that clear
08:30 < Shirik> yeah you want a gradient from white to black
08:30 < Dcoetzee> The mask is a monochrome layer.
08:31 < Soapy> and that means Photoshop 5.5 is still good after all these years
08:32 < TeeTylerToe> Don't say that.  Graphics artists in the 90s were savages
08:34 < TeeTylerToe> Can you imagine?  They only used one program!
08:34 < TeeTylerToe> How primitive!
08:36 < Dcoetzee> Adobe is trying to add all features into one program :-P
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08:36 < Dcoetzee> Gradually Photoshop gets more features of Illustrator, Lightroom gets more features of Photoshop, etc.
08:36 < mareklug> TeeTylerToe:  you're kidding, right?  Qwark Express, Corell Draw, PageMaker, Illustrator, Photoshop
08:36 -!- James_F_ is now known as James_F
08:38 < Qcoder02> Dcoetzee:   Whwen will Gimp and INkscape merge ? XD
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08:39 < Soapy> my alternative was going to be to make dozens of layers of different transparency ... which would have worked but been ridiculously tedious
08:41 < BarkingFish> Qcoder02, hoepfully never. But if it happens, I would prefer GIMP to merge into inkscape, not the other way round.
08:41 < BarkingFish> *hopefully
08:42 < KimiSleep> okay I have a concept
08:42 < KimiSleep> an idea
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08:42 < KimiSleep> and I'm dead-serious so like
08:42 < KimiSleep> comment as you will
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08:42 < KimiSleep> The idea is: A cyberstalker toolkit
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08:43 < TeeTylerToe> because cyberstalkers sufferer under the same conditions of graphic artists, but for cyberstalkers there is a light atthe end of the tunnel?
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08:44 < KimiSleep> Pardon?
08:45 < TeeTylerToe> is the toolkit to help TO cyberstalk or prevent cyberstalking?
08:45 < KimiSleep> It's for an aspiring cyberstalker
08:45 < TeeTylerToe> does the toolkit help TO cyberstalk rather
08:45 < KimiSleep> Something like metasplot, a toolkit (a bunch of scripts and data-mining stuff) that uses social media and other online presence to generate various data
08:45 < Dragonfly6-7> any tool can be misused
08:46 < mareklug> KimiSleep:  why do you want to help a cyberstalker?  why not the cyberstalker?
08:46 < mareklug> cyberstalkee?
08:47 < TeeTylerToe> I think microsoft's next product is a cloud productivity app for cyberstalkers
08:47 < KimiSleep> You could have graphs of online presence via services that allow you to see if the user is online (i.e. facebook, messenger), alerts on user availability or relationship changes or mentions of your names or any other keywords
08:47 < KimiSleep> &c.
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08:47 < mareklug> my autocorrector is bad
08:47 < TeeTylerToe> never ever apply for a job at facebook
08:47 < wctaiwan> gah earworms
08:47 < KimiSleep> mareklug - Because where there is a need, there will be someone to fulfil it
08:47 < KimiSleep> and because it's more fun and practical than the other side
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08:48 < mareklug> KimiSleep:  seems there is more need to prevent not abbey cyberstalking
08:48 < mareklug> abbet
08:48 < KimiSleep> I mean
08:48 < Soapy> *abet
08:48 < KimiSleep> There's more of an audience for cyberstalking toolkits
08:48 < KimiSleep> It's not like it harms anyone
08:49 < KimiSleep> Detecting it is a lot harder than preformming it
08:49 < KimiSleep> Because you don't have access to, for example, who has accessed your facebook page
08:49 < mareklug> KimiSleep:  i beg to differ.  more people would buy protection, like in the antivirus market
08:49 < KimiSleep> but you can see other people's pages and twitters and whatnot
08:49 < KimiSleep> And the intention is something that's entirely legal obviously
08:50 -!- hyoidsILI [~beagle@171.159.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has left #wikipedia-en []
08:50 < KimiSleep> So you've got: twitter, facebook, other social networking sites, searching for any other information relevant to their email, phone number or full name
08:50 < mareklug> KimiSleep:  dunno.  a court may see you as helping enabling to harass people in a potential suit
08:50 < KimiSleep> Any online profiles
08:51 < KimiSleep> But I'm using publicly available information and I'm not the one actively using it in order to harass or whatever
08:51 -!- liberaldudette [~mark@74.63.233.124] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
08:51 < KimiSleep> It could be used for good purposes
08:51 < KimiSleep> You could use it on yourself to be aware of your own online presence, for instance.
08:53 < Dcoetzee> KimiSleep: Or it could be used by police
08:53 < KimiSleep> That, too!
08:53 < KimiSleep> See, I'm helping society already
08:53 < TeeTylerToe> lucious fox destroyed that machine at the end of the dark knight returns
08:53 < Dcoetzee> A tool is not in itself morally good or bad.
08:53 < mareklug> Federer wins 19-17 in 3rd set over Del Potro, moves to final
08:53 < KimiSleep> TeeTylerToe - Ho! Perhaps you ahve a better idea then?
08:54 < Dcoetzee> If the government abuses a novel tool in an unconstitutional manner, their evidence gets thrown out.
08:54 < KimiSleep> Perhaps we should kill the batman?
08:54 < TeeTylerToe> let's get rid of that fox doo gooder.
08:54 < KimiSleep> It's not unconstitutional
08:54 < KimiSleep> A person always agrees to put his information out there
08:54 < KimiSleep> I'm not stealing it
08:54 < KimiSleep> I'm taking only what is publicly available
08:55 < BarkingFish> Er... This looks like it needs kicking into touch.  I just found a website which is claiming to be "selling" Wikipedia articles, made into books, for over 2500 rupees each.
08:55 < BarkingFish> http://www.crossword.in/books/baby-notarztwagen-german/p-books-6133116978.html
08:56 < BarkingFish> Apparently the works are being "published" in Germany, and given an ISBN number
08:56 < Soapy> cool
08:56 < TeeTylerToe> That's even cheaper than an ebook!
08:56 < Soapy> at least theyr getting more honest
08:56 < Dragonfly6-7> BarkingFish - is the content free?
08:56 < Soapy> because there are other publishers doing the same thing and not saying that theyre Wikipedia until you buy the book and open it
08:56 -!- liberaldudette [~mark@74.63.233.124] has joined #wikipedia-en
08:57 < TeeTylerToe> it would be nice if google filtered out websites that just copy wikipedia content
08:57 < BarkingFish> The content is free, Dragonfly6-7 - but the fact that they're printing it and making money off of it doesn't strike me as right
08:57 < TeeTylerToe> it's like selling public domain books or music
08:57 < TeeTylerToe> or those $2 public domain dvds walmart sells
08:57 < WhiskerBiscuit> Anyone with highbeam access care to do a search for me?
08:57 < Soapy> wow thats expensive
08:58 < BarkingFish> They're also stating that a publisher in Germany is apparently printing that "68 page" work
08:58 < Soapy> i did a currency conversion
08:58 < Soapy> it says its about $40 US
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08:58 < Qcoder02> Nothing in CC-BY-SA stops you selling stuff
08:58 < Qcoder02> The way to get back is to photocopy the book if they let you :)
08:58 < BarkingFish> That 68 page work is one page of text.
08:58 < BarkingFish> It's a rip off
08:59 < Qcoder02> HOw many pages does the article actually run to?
08:59 < BarkingFish> 1
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08:59 < Dragonfly6-7> BarkingFish - it's 100% legal to print out Wikipedia material, bind it in a book, and sell it.
08:59 < Qcoder02> Then it's a scam
08:59 < Soapy> there's probably other stuff there besides the Babynot?rztwagen article
08:59 < KimiSleep> There's even a wikipedia initiative to do exactly that!
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08:59 < Soapy> yeah
09:00 < Soapy> $40 for a wikipedia article is insane though
09:00 < BarkingFish> So wait... Volunteers write it, but anyone can print it, sell it, and make money off of it without giving us a dime?
09:00 < Soapy> BarkingFish Yes
09:00 < Soapy> thats the license agreement
09:00 < TeeTylerToe> it would be interesting if library districts had a print on demand system for public domain books so they would only print public domain books on demand
09:00 < BarkingFish> Fuck that for a lark.  I say we find a better license
09:00 < Soapy> "you agree that your work can be reposted anywhere, including commercially, and you relinquish all copyrights"
09:00 < Dragonfly6-7> BarkingFish - although they do have to note that it's copyleft content.   "THIS MATERIAL WAS FREELY AVAILABLE ON WIKIPEDIA"
09:00 < WhiskerBiscuit> Hillarious!!!!   https://www.dropbox.com/s/2b4aw1jzwj8tis5/statues.jpg
09:01 < WhiskerBiscuit> I particulary like the last picture
09:01 < Soapy> I dont think the WMF could afford to sue all those puslishers
09:01 < Soapy> besides, it's not just books, it's images too
09:01 < Dragonfly6-7> BarkingFish - Free Encyclopedia Is Free
09:01 < Soapy> imagine if we tried to sue eveyrone who posted a Wikipedia image anywhere else
09:02 < BarkingFish> Dragonfly6-7, free encyclopedia shouldn't be taken advantage of... Free = free as in beer.
09:02 < BarkingFish> money grabbing bastards
09:02 < TeeTylerToe> or if anyone ever tried to enforce image/photo copyrights anywhere ever like music or video copyrights are enforced
09:02 < Soapy> that said, Im just as outraged as you at the people who're scamming vulnerable people into buying this stuff
09:02 < Soapy> but it's not new
09:02 < Soapy> [[alphaScript]] was the first big one
09:02 < Dragonfly6-7> as long as they openly say that the content is from wikipedia and that it's available for anyone else to copy from
09:03 < Soapy> in fact maybe this publisher is just AlphaScript under another name
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09:03 < morgankevinj> Its hard to even enforce all rights reseved image on the internet just check pintrest
09:03 < Shirik> Qcoder02: There are companies that sell linux distributions
09:03 < Shirik> how is it a scam?
09:03 < Dragonfly6-7> there's a reason the internet is also called "Steal-o-tron"
09:04 < Qcoder02> Shirik: It was the selling 1 page of text as a 68 page work I said would be a scam
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09:04 < TeeTylerToe> caveat emptor
09:04 < Soapy> i think it's 68 pages
09:04 < WhiskerBiscuit> HighBeam anyone?
09:04 < Soapy> I dont think even this company would try to sell a 1 - page article as a 68 page book
09:05 < WhiskerBiscuit> no one's cold?
09:05 < Qcoder02> What of course would be a concern is if a Publisher was re-using 'fair use images'
09:05 < Qcoder02> ;)
09:05 < Qcoder02> Although Wikipedia does provide a basis for how a publisher would claim fair use ;)
09:05 < BarkingFish> Soapy, you can clearly see it on the page -
09:05 < BarkingFish>     Title : Baby- Notarztwagen (German)
09:05 < BarkingFish>     Publisher : VDM Verlag Dr. Mueller AG & Co. Kg
09:05 < BarkingFish>     ISBN : 6133116978
09:05 < BarkingFish>     EAN : 9786133116979
09:05 < BarkingFish>     Binding : Paperback
09:05 < BarkingFish>     Number Of Pages : 68
09:05 < BarkingFish>     Language : German
09:06 < TeeTylerToe> although there are things that should be fair use on wikipedia but would be a copyright violation on a published for profit book
09:06 < BarkingFish> It's a freaking one page text.  68 pages my arse
09:06 -!- wctaiwan [~wctaiwan@wikipedia/wctaiwan] has joined #wikipedia-en
09:06 < TeeTylerToe> although I suppose for profit encyclopedias could still use them...
09:07 < BarkingFish> anyway, I'm off for a bit to get some dinner. See you guys in a while
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09:08 < Soapy> AHA!!!
09:08 < Soapy> It *IS* alphaScript
09:10 < Soapy> only $40 to read a Wikipedia article !!!
09:10 < Soapy> they have over 300,000 books of Wikipedia articles
09:11 < TeeTylerToe> it's a business model that works I suppose
09:11 < foks> How to buy an alphaScript book
09:11 < foks> 1. visit en.wikipedia.org
09:11 < foks> 2. done
09:12 < James_F> Indeed.
09:12 < morgankevinj> or wikibooks
09:12 < Soapy> and the argument that it's for people without internet access doesnt really work since as far as I can see alphaScript only sells online anyway
09:12 < Qcoder02> Is this publisher donating money back to Wikimedia,de?
09:12 < Qcoder02> Hi James_F
09:13 < Qcoder02> James_F:  You  now work in SF right?
09:13 < Soapy> we'd probably refuse their donations if they were. But no
09:13 < James_F> Qcoder02: Yes.
09:13 < Qcoder02> OK
09:13 < Qcoder02> Do you know of a fast food firm called Chik-Fil-a ?
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09:13 < Soapy> heh
09:13 < Soapy> everyone knows Chick-Fil-A
09:13 < Ironholds> Qcoder02: James_F did not fall off the turnip truck
09:13 < Ironholds> I am sure he has heard the news about it ;p
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09:14 < Soapy> they dont have stores in all of the USA, though
09:14 < Soapy> the local mall here refused to let them in because they wont do business on Sundays
09:14 < wctaiwan> test
09:14 < wctaiwan> hm.
09:14 < James_F> Qcoder02: Of course I've heard of them.
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09:14 < James_F> Qcoder02: However, I don't think they have any outlets in or near SF.
09:15 < Soapy> theyre from the South I think
09:15 < James_F> Qcoder02: And they sell nothing I'd buy, so I've not given it much thought.
09:15 < Qcoder02> Soapy: What wrong with not opening Sunday?
09:15 < Soapy> Sundays are busy days for shopping malls
09:15 < Qcoder02> Business staff need a break
09:15 < TeeTylerToe> retail should be open during non banking hours
09:15 < Soapy> the owner of the mall made a personal decision, though, that all of the stores in the mall have to be open for all 7 days
09:16 < WhiskerBiscuit> you guys talking about CfA?
09:16 < Soapy> yes
09:16 < WhiskerBiscuit> heh
09:16 < TeeTylerToe> for that matter, banks should be open during non banking hours
09:16 < WhiskerBiscuit> ive been wokring on that to try and keep the freaks on both sides from making it a soapbox
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09:16 < wctaiwan> I swear I'll stop quitting and joining... after this time >.>
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09:16 < WhiskerBiscuit> Say what you want about CfA
09:16 < morgankevinj> ATM 24/7!
09:16 < Qcoder02> Soapy: Well surely the hours a Buiness opens is a matter for the Business not the landlord?
09:16 < WhiskerBiscuit> their chicken is fucking delicious
09:16 -!- wctaiwan [~wctaiwan@wikipedia/wctaiwan] has joined #wikipedia-en
09:17 < WhiskerBiscuit> Short of calling it Hitler's Chicken or Pol Pot Poultry, im gonna eat it
09:17 < Soapy> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Chickfila_location_distribution.svg
09:17 < TeeTylerToe> I like teri-yaki myself
09:17 < Soapy> qcoder2: not really
09:17 < wctaiwan> hm.
09:17 < wctaiwan> huzzah. It works.
09:17 < wctaiwan> I think.
09:17 < WhiskerBiscuit> I like that... "Pol Pot Poultry"
09:17 < Soapy> it's pretty common for businesses to have to follow the rules of the landowners
09:17 < TeeTylerToe> I'd take teri-yaki over steak
09:17 < WhiskerBiscuit> A whole dictators chain of restaraunts
09:18 < WhiskerBiscuit> Stalin Steaks
09:18 < Soapy> for example there's a Subway near here that's not allowed to serve breakfast because their land is owned by Dunkin Donuts
09:18 < Qcoder02> WhiskerBiscuit:  Gulagash?
09:18 < Qcoder02> XD
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09:18 < TeeTylerToe> a subway breakfast...
09:18 < Soapy> and the city of Haverhill, Massachusetts has a lot of land owned by a supermarket chain, and that chain won't allow any competitors in
09:19 < WhiskerBiscuit> Most retail locations have landlord covenants
09:19 < WhiskerBiscuit> Its too bad about CfA on Sundays....
09:19 < Soapy> anyway, as you can see at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Chickfila_location_distribution.svg , there's still no Chick-Fil-A in much of the USA, including the conservative states
09:19 < WhiskerBiscuit> Jesus would want people to eat that Chicken
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09:20 < TeeTylerToe> Jesus would want you to feed thepoor with that delicious chicken
09:20 < WhiskerBiscuit> Soapy: and?
09:20 < Soapy> WhiskerBiscuit: just saying
09:20 < TeeTylerToe> not everybody everywhere knows chick-fil-a
09:20 < WhiskerBiscuit> Well, Jesus saves, so he can feed them hinself
09:20 < WhiskerBiscuit> yeah, there arent a lot of them
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09:20 < Qcoder02> Does Chick_Fil-A have any branches in the UK?
09:20 < WhiskerBiscuit> mostly south carolina and below
09:21 < Qcoder02> I am waiting for a Gay couple to eat in, be refused , and sue the pants of them
09:21 < Qcoder02> :(
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09:21 < WhiskerBiscuit> Qcoder02: they wont do that
09:22 -!- tkazec [~msk@173.247.10.144] has joined #wikipedia-en
09:22 < Qcoder02> Make it Weeding party? XD
09:22 < Qcoder02> *Wedding
09:22 < WhiskerBiscuit> As long as they have $$$, CfA will feed em
09:23 < WhiskerBiscuit> I've never noticed any Jesus wierdness when I went to one before
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09:23  * Qcoder02 wonders if Scientology has any outlets in the retail world
09:24 < Qcoder02> Apart from it's Sales offices
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09:26 < LikeLakers2> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/55419615/Capture17.PNG  <-- /me agrees
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09:35 < wctaiwan> LikeLakers2: they have an installation in which Nye makes an appearance, iirc
09:35 < wctaiwan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universe_of_Energy#Universe_of_Energy:_Ellen.27s_Energy_Adventure_.281996.E2.80.93present.29
09:36 < LikeLakers2> nice
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09:40 -!- Callanecc [kvirc@wikipedia/Callanecc] has left #wikipedia-en ["Once you know what it is you want to be true, instinct is a very useful device for enabling you to know that it is"]
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09:44 < TeeTylerToe> The only tax reform the republicans and democrats can agree on is giving more writeoffs to their mutual contributors
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09:55 < Lubaf> Uping the ante in the typo wars: http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2012/08/03/mitt_romney_is_a_dangerous_man.html
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10:03 < VanishedUser2138> Wikipedia is confusing.
10:10 < Dragonfly6-7> then you should vanish again
10:10 < VanishedUser2138> Staying gone is hard.
10:10 < Dragonfly6-7> junkie
10:11 < VanishedUser2138> I'm sorry.
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10:14 < SuicidalZerg> lol
10:14  * SuicidalZerg never really retired :p
10:15  * SuicidalZerg just retired from vandal-fighting is all :p
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10:15 < SuicidalZerg> Which was... well, everything that I did, lol...
10:16 < mareklug> Serena vs. Sharapova for gold, Azarenka vs. Kirilenko for bronze
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10:19 < Isarra> Who are you, again?
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--- Log closed Fri Aug 03 10:26:11 2012