User:Badmachine/wikipedia-en-2013-06-03
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--- Log opened Mon Jun 03 00:00:55 2013
00:02 < koishi> aaaaaaaaaaaaa
00:05 < gry> ?
00:06 < dtm_> why can't i make a multi-column setup that starts alongside an infobox?
00:06 < dtm_> it waits until the bottom of the infobox in order to display my table
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00:07 < gry> dtm_: link?
00:08 < gry> you could try putting infobox inside of a div with float:right;,but I think it does that already, so it's just a question of what the width of your content is
00:08 < dtm_> gry: well i'm still previewing it. but i'll save it really fast if you're quick ;)
00:09 < dtm_> i'll do a test page
00:11 < dtm_> gry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Smuckola/sandbox
00:11 < dtm_> this is totally messed up.
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00:13 < gry> ok
00:13 < dtm_> ==Sports== table and the bus on one row. Stadium bleaches on another row. ===Football===
00:13 < dtm_> that's how i want it.
00:13 < dtm_> s/bleaches/bleachers/
00:13 < dtm_> gry: thanks
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00:14 < Jasper_Deng> koishi: you're Despastche on-wiki?
00:14 < Jasper_Deng> taking that to ANI wasn't a good idea, IMO.
00:14 * Jasper_Deng would have preferred to take it to DRN.
00:15 < dtm_> gry: it's like the infobox is magic. oil and water.
00:15 < dtm_> gry: and this is the only table-based template i can find which even remotely works. all the rest of them dont work at al.
00:15 < dtm_> all.
00:15 < gry> so you'd like table 25% width, 75% width photo, then the infobox (from left to right), correct?
00:15 < dtm_> i probably tried about four. {{div col}}, {{columns}} etc
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00:15 < dtm_> gry: pretty muc
00:15 < dtm_> h
00:15 < dtm_> gry: i dont want to declare widths ideally.
00:16 < dtm_> i just want the table and the bus pic to be consecutive.
00:16 < dtm_> adjacent
00:16 < gry> check what I did, does it look right?
00:17 < gry> (reload the page)
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00:19 < dtm_> gry: so you had to put the image first?
00:19 < dtm_> that's somehow magic?
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00:20 < dtm_> gry: and i'm going to add a {{clear}} before ===Football===
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00:21 < dtm_> gry: i guess that'll do. do you have any idea why i can't do the table and then the image?
00:21 < gry> {{clear}} may add too much white space, the infobox is way long
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00:21 < dtm_> no it's regardless of the infobox
00:22 < gry> image has left float set: it means it floats at the left of the content that follows
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00:22 < dtm_> i mean it comes after the infobox anyway
00:22 < dtm_> oh! the float.
00:22 < dtm_> i forgot about that parameter!
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00:25 < gry> dtm_, I added {{clear}} after second image before ==Football==, see what I got: http://imgur.com/a/lTchf
00:25 < dtm_> gry: yeah that's what i did, thanks
00:25 < dtm_> i just published it. thanks for reminding me of the left float.
00:26 < dtm_> formatting is crazy. tables are CRAZY.
00:26 < dtm_> you tell me in what rational world there could possibly be six different templates just for tables.
00:26 < gry> heh 'published' :) that usually follows extensive peer review; you just 'saved' it rather :)
00:26 < dtm_> yeah.
00:26 < gry> it's not the worst part of wiki markup though, it's decent with those params and being customisable; the templates language is the real hell :)
00:27 < dtm_> :-o
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00:28 < gry> dtm_, I did formatting edits to the page, reload and look please, does it look better? (real page, not sandbox)
00:29 < gry> I just moved the football team photo a bit up so it floats at the left, assuming less white space is better
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00:29 < dtm_> yeah and i added another {{clear}}
00:30 < dtm_> good idea
00:30 < dtm_> well done. thanks man.
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00:30 < dtm_> i just had gone out and taken all those pictures, so it looks a lot better now
00:31 < dtm_> i'd already redone the school's articles last week
00:31 < gry> yup, might want to chase a few third-party sources, I'm sure a good football team would have decent press coverage
00:31 < dtm_> no doubt. i didn't even start on getting more references.
00:32 < dtm_> if i try to put the table first, and then the bus, i get weird artifact.s
00:36 < koishi> jasper_deng: what's the difference? i really don't know
00:36 < koishi> i just saw that drn "wasn't about user conduct" and ran for it
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00:43 < dtm_> gry: i stuck these photos up on the main page just now http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_Wesleyan_University
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00:52 < gry> nice
00:54 < petan> prague is under water :(
00:54 < dtm_> why?!? who did that
00:55 < dtm_> was that some Indiana Jones stuff
00:56 < petan> floods
00:57 < dtm_> bummer.
00:57 < dtm_> gry: yeah i'm pretty glad coz now the articles look fairly legit
00:57 < dtm_> since i copyedited them and added photos
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01:00 < SigmaWP> good ngiht
01:01 < gry> night SigmaWP (/amsg :o)
01:01 < ToAruShiroiNeko> petan ie new vennice?
01:02 < TOS> Good night SigmaWP
01:02 < petan> ToAruShiroiNeko: atlantida
01:02 < ToAruShiroiNeko> atlantis?
01:02 < ToAruShiroiNeko> US to declare war on floods
01:03 < ToAruShiroiNeko> war on floods will use stealth bombers to fix the problem
01:04 < SigmaWP> petan: good luck man
01:04 < SigmaWP> You should defenestrate someone
01:04 < SigmaWP> hue hue hue hue hue hue
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01:08 < gry> dtm_, thanks, that's nice
01:08 < dtm_> gry: yeah so thanks for helpin. i'd been sitting on these changes for a while coz i didn't know how to put it all together.
01:09 < gry> my pleasure
01:13 < dtm_> also i'm looking for someone to translate an article from English to Spanish
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01:16 < gry> I can translate to a foreign language, but it wouldn't be Spanish, would that be desirable? what motivates your language choice?
01:20 < dtm_> gry: because the subject is cuban
01:21 < gry> hrm
01:21 < dtm_> maybe mareklug would translate [[Mitch Markovich]] to Polish. Mitch spent I think a few years in Poland.
01:21 < dtm_> and he did a lot for Japan
01:22 < dtm_> but [[Walfredo Reyes, Jr.]] and his family are Cuban and Puerto Rican
01:22 < dtm_> also, Mitch is from Chicago ;)
01:24 < dtm_> gry: do you cover any of those langauges
01:24 < dtm_> languages?
01:25 < gry> nope but I'll look into translating them in my free time anyway
01:26 < dtm_> gry: well, that's super nice of ya. what languages do you know?
01:26 < gry> thanks for the barnstar at my talk page by the way, I moved it out to a separate barnstars page, I don't think the archiving bot likes to nuke them so I'll start collecting instead
01:26 < gry> just English and a little bit of Russian at the moment
01:26 < dtm_> oh.
01:27 < dtm_> yes you should have a barnstar page
01:27 < gry> yeah, now it's linked at the top of my page
01:27 < gry> my talk page, even
01:27 < dtm_> k
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01:27 < dtm_> by what criteria does the bot archive your pages?
01:27 < gry> probably a first one from someone different from a bot :)
01:27 < gry> length of edits to a section, iirc
01:28 < gry> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:MiszaBot/Archive_HowTo
01:28 < dtm_> weird.
01:28 < dtm_> wiki-weird.
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01:44 < dtm_> gry: so what's up
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01:51 < gry> not much, I'm doing something off-wiki at the moment
01:52 < dtm_> oh no!
01:52 < dtm_> WHY?
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01:57 < feta_> any admins or? ..
01:58 < dtm_> i'll take the latter
01:58 < TeeTylerToe> It's not uncommon for them to be here, iirc there's a channel if you have something urgent for them
01:58 < TeeTylerToe> oh wait, For urgent admin help, say
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01:59 < closedmouth> admins don't usually respond if you don't state what you want
01:59 < TeeTylerToe> You have to ask them for coffee or something, and even then they usually ignore you
02:00 < dtm_> they're really ignorant
02:00 < dtm_> it's just what they do. and they're darn good at it.
02:02 < TeeTylerToe> what do you need help with feta_?
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02:04 < addshore> TOS: care to quickly proof read 1 more thing? :D
02:04 < addshore> make sure I am getting my point across again :D
02:04 < feta_> some guy undid my revision but i think i
02:04 < TeeTylerToe> were you wondering if controversy sections are on the outs why there are entire articles devoted to article controversy?
02:04 < feta_> i'm right
02:05 < TeeTylerToe> The first step is usually to bring it up in the article talk page afaik
02:05 < TOS> sure
02:06 < addshore> TOS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Split_bot_flag =]
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02:07 < addshore> and potentially also https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Global_Wikidata_Bots/Message
02:07 < addshore> :D
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02:10 < TeeTylerToe> there doesn't seem to be much genuine scruitiny in rfps, it seems to be more a combination of popularity contests and tribalism
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02:17 < TeeTylerToe> why are over 100 people lurking in various wikipedia channels? It's boggling to imagine how little the average account actually has any activity
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02:22 < YuviPanda> dtm_: around?
02:22 < YuviPanda> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:HashNuke/Exotel is what they have
02:22 < YuviPanda> there are references but nothing inline 'coz he can't figure out how to do inline refs
02:23 < tommorris> TeeTylerToe: plenty of us lurkers are, say, at work, or asleep.
02:23 < tommorris> TeeTylerToe: and I respond to requests for admin action when I'm available to do so. if you feel there aren't enough admins available, go vote some more in. ;)
02:23 < TeeTylerToe> I don't think 197 people have good reason to lurk while asleep
02:24 < tommorris> what's wrong with lurking?
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02:24 < TeeTylerToe> I don't really buy into the admin "crisis", although the editor think is a little worrying
02:24 < dtm_> tommorris: hi. how's your head
02:24 < YuviPanda> it's easy to lurk especially if you are lurking from a server
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02:24 < tommorris> dtm_: a lot better. I have hot honey and lemon and a not too taxing day at work
02:25 < dtm_> tommorris: k
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02:25 < TeeTylerToe> does that meet notability?
02:25 < YuviPanda> oh what happened, tommorris?
02:25 < dtm_> TeeTylerToe: are you talking about requests for proposals on the village pump? or reversed field pinch?
02:26 < TeeTylerToe> requests for permissions
02:26 < tommorris> I used to do 'em. I should do more.
02:27 < YuviPanda> dtm_: do take a look at that userspace link when you are free :)
02:27 < YuviPanda> thanks
02:27 < YuviPanda> !
02:27 < dtm_> tommorris: you should hook a CVU brotha up with some rollback.
02:28 < tommorris> dtm_: you don't have rollback?
02:28 < TeeTylerToe> does that meet notability YuviPanda?
02:28 < YuviPanda> the references listed are all reliable, IIRC
02:28 < TeeTylerToe> Having refereces doesn't mean it's notable does it?
02:29 < tommorris> no, but it is fairly indicative ;)
02:29 < dtm_> YuviPanda: based on that content, i'm gonna say it's not notable, because though it may be notable today, wikinotability is permanent.
02:30 < tommorris> dtm_: check yer user talk
02:30 < YuviPanda> the content could use a bit of impreovement, I agree.
02:30 < dtm_> YuviPanda: it's a startup. it's not the biggest startup in history, it has no worldwide or nationwide groundbreaking achievement, etc
02:30 < TeeTylerToe> and because arguing about notability is one of those things where it seems like the work is impactful
02:30 < YuviPanda> I suppose I'll just ask them to pull it through AfC anyway.
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02:31 < YuviPanda> as I said previously, I will try not to get too involved.
02:31 < YuviPanda> besides, I don't really do much content work, so *shrug*
02:31 < dtm_> tommorris: you are a gentleman and a scholar. i've always said that. and i have Twinkle ;) i just wanted a permission.
02:31 < dtm_> just in case!
02:31 < dtm_> tommorris: what else ya got? ;)
02:32 < tommorris> dtm_: well, you'll have to apply for the others. I'm not a [[WP:HATSHOP]].
02:32 < YuviPanda> TeeTylerToe: dtm_ is there a policy on Notability for companies written up somewhere?
02:32 < dtm_> tommorris: lol!!!
02:32 < YuviPanda> that I can point the people involved in to?
02:32 < tommorris> YuviPanda: [[WP:ORG]]
02:32 < dtm_> YuviPanda: yeah. search google or wikipedia
02:32 < YuviPanda> thanks tommorris
02:32 < TeeTylerToe> like most wiki policy/blathering it's probably pretty vague bordering on useless
02:33 < tommorris> I'd say if the Exotel article were to go up for deletion, it'd probably be kept
02:33 < dtm_> tommorris: you think so? how?
02:33 < YuviPanda> I think so too. Someone poked me with a similar page a while back, which was also kept
02:33 < tommorris> meets GNG
02:34 < dtm_> tommorris: yeah how?
02:34 < tommorris> well, there's a few sources there that are reliable and provide in-depth coverage of the company
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02:34 < dtm_> tommorris: the question is of notability
02:34 < dtm_> which is nationally significant, and permanent
02:35 < TeeTylerToe> When evaluating the notability of organizations or products, please consider whether they have had any significant or demonstrable effects on culture, society, entertainment, athletics, economies, history, literature, science, or education.
02:35 < tommorris> well, if something meets the GNG, it is notable
02:35 < dtm_> tommorris: that's what i just asked!
02:35 < dtm_> how are you saying that it does so?
02:35 < dtm_> ^_^
02:35 < YuviPanda> well
02:35 < YuviPanda> 'A company, corporation, organization, school, team, religion, group, product, or service is notable if it has been the subject of significant coverage in secondary sources. Such sources must be reliable, and independent of the subject. '
02:35 < YuviPanda> is from WP:ORG
02:35 < tommorris> yes, but ORG doesn't override GNG
02:36 * YuviPanda goes to read GNG
02:36 < tommorris> specific notability guidelines haven't overriden the GNG for a while
02:36 < YuviPanda> sorry, I'm new to this
02:36 < dtm_> wow that'd cover just about anything
02:36 < tommorris> "If a topic has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, it is presumed to satisfy the inclusion criteria for a stand-alone article or stand-alone list."
02:36 < tommorris> there are three independent reliable sources that provide significant coverage of the article
02:36 < tommorris> ergo, it satisfies GNG
02:36 < tommorris> just calling it like I see it. ;)
02:36 < dtm_> tommorris: yeah just wondering
02:37 < YuviPanda> okay, i'm going to help add inline refs appropriately
02:37 * YuviPanda goes to read up on syntax
02:37 < dtm_> tommorris: is that ditto for BLP?
02:37 < dtm_> oh it's GNG. wheee.
02:37 < dtm_> and it's late.
02:37 < YuviPanda> what's your timezone, dtm_?
02:37 < YuviPanda> i see you up all the time!
02:38 < dtm_> central
02:38 < kondi> hehe
02:39 < tommorris> dtm_: the specific notability guidelines for people don't override the GNG, but BLP1E does. (and, no, I can't justify why that is, it's just my observation from participating and closing lots of deletion discussions)
02:39 < dtm_> "While consensus may change, notability once established and demonstrated is permanent."
02:39 < dtm_> tommorris: hm.
02:40 < dtm_> tommorris: the criteria on musicians is fairly strict
02:40 < tommorris> yep, because notability is based primarily on sources rather than on some moralistic judgment on a person's worth
02:40 < dtm_> and it's interesting that they say that the musician needs to be an authority in their city. so i disqualified a two-album-published guy in San Diego, but i could qualify a guy with a couple of itunes singles in Salina, KS
02:41 < dtm_> the guy in San Diego was merely nominated for some metro-wide music award festivals but didn't win! Salina doens't even have a music award!
02:41 < dtm_> ^_^
02:42 < dtm_> but hey it comes down to common sense and community standards, doesn't it
02:43 < TeeTylerToe> the zdnet link is a primary source, and the reuters is a press release
02:44 < dtm_> YuviPanda: well, seeing how the GNG are nearly worthlessly vague, i guess you have a winner ;)
02:44 < dtm_> the warm fuzzy blanket of inclusion
02:44 < TeeTylerToe> Hey! Pretty much ALL notability is worthlessly vague!
02:44 < YuviPanda> hehe
02:44 < dtm_> lol.
02:45 < YuviPanda> should I use <ref> or {{cite web}}?
02:45 < dtm_> i'm definitely getting my hometown rapper in, someday
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02:45 < YuviPanda> <ref> I think?
02:45 < dtm_> YuviPanda: yes
02:45 < YuviPanda> okay, using <ref>
02:45 < dtm_> YuviPanda: <ref name="foo and such">{{cite web}}</ref>
02:45 < YuviPanda> oh, both?
02:45 < TeeTylerToe> but the zdnet and reuters links don't meet GNG, dunno about the others
02:45 < dtm_> and {{cite press release}} and {{cite news}} etc
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02:46 < dtm_> as is appropriate
02:46 < YuviPanda> i'm still reading through {{cite web}}
02:46 < YuviPanda> would be the first time I've done anything that's not just minor corrections
02:46 < dtm_> YuviPanda: well done
02:46 < dtm_> YuviPanda: you'll never be the same. ruined for life <3 JOIIIIIN UUUUUS
02:46 < TeeTylerToe> it's easy
02:46 < YuviPanda> hehe :P
02:46 < dtm_> now you'll spit on the average article's wikitext
02:46 < tommorris> YuviPanda: you can just use the citation popup thingy. works reasonably well
02:46 < dtm_> and feel so useful
02:47 < YuviPanda> oh?
02:47 < YuviPanda> where is that?
02:47 * YuviPanda looks
02:47 < YuviPanda> oh
02:47 < dtm_> yeah i completely gave up on that thing's limitations
02:47 < YuviPanda> in the toolbar, next to 'Help'?
02:47 < tommorris> YuviPanda: in the formatting bar, click "Cite", then there's a drop down with four options - cite news, web, book and journal
02:47 < TeeTylerToe> there are at least a couple different citation helper things, can't make anything simple
02:47 < tommorris> it does the job reasonably well
02:47 < dtm_> TeeTylerToe: yeah i handily gave up on them all
02:47 < dtm_> painstakingly and longsufferingly
02:50 < YuviPanda> tommorris: oh, it is pretty nice!
02:50 < dtm_> hehe i just copyedited the punctuation on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability#Notability_is_not_temporary <3
02:51 < tommorris> YuviPanda: there's another one which a lot of people use, but the JS loading is disruptive so I avoid it
02:51 < dtm_> yeah i've disabled some tools due to disruptive javascript
02:51 < dtm_> bigtime
02:51 < dtm_> it sucks to even have to troubleshoot them
02:51 < dtm_> to find the offenders.
02:51 < TeeTylerToe> In the top bar there's the book icon which helps cite, then there's the >cite that helps cite, but wait... there's more, on the bottom there's Cite your sources: <ref></ref>,
02:51 < dtm_> in the sprawling patchwork that is wikipedia
02:52 < YuviPanda> dtm_: should the refs be inserted before the full stop or after?
02:52 < dtm_> YuviPanda: after punctuation
02:52 < dtm_> YuviPanda: it's a generally good idea to look at a known-good article too, by comparison
02:52 < dtm_> YuviPanda: and you'll look upon the wiki for the first time, with your new vampire eyes
02:53 < YuviPanda> :D
02:53 < YuviPanda> I could see that happening already yeah
02:53 < dtm_> r u i n e d
02:53 < TeeTylerToe> then there's the cite help under >help on the top bar as well
02:53 < YuviPanda> dtm_: to be fair, I've done little bits of tech stuff on the desktop site before, so already that sortof happens
02:54 < YuviPanda> and it's a good idea to insert multiple references too I guess
02:54 < YuviPanda> for some thing at least
02:54 < dtm_> tommorris: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability#Notability_is_not_temporary http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:What_notability_is_not
02:54 < dtm_> tommorris: wat. lol.
02:54 < TeeTylerToe> choose template would be a lot more helpful than just template
02:54 < dtm_> "Notability is not temporary" "Notability is not permanent"
02:55 < dtm_> that's cute.
02:55 < tommorris> dtm_: essays do not trump guidelines. ;)
02:56 < dtm_> :-o
02:56 < dtm_> "This is not to be confused with Notability is not temporary." what? *how*?
02:56 < dtm_> what does that even mean?
02:56 < tzatziki> ask whomever wrote it
02:57 < tzatziki> in this case, [[user:hiding]]
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03:01 < kondi> YuviPanda: almost done with that mess
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03:04 < YuviPanda> kondi: :D
03:04 < dtm_> tommorris: so basically what we're saying is that a BLP is notable for having several secondary RSes, unless it is about a crime or a one-time event?
03:05 < dtm_> tommorris: even if the result is an article that does not demonstrate that it'll ever grow?
03:05 < tommorris> dtm_: BLP1E is slightly broader than that. we've deleted articles before on "genius child mathematicians" who the press occassionally dig out.
03:05 < tommorris> articles don't have to grow
03:06 < dtm_> okay i wrote a BLP draft that i wasn't sure on, and i'd appreciate review.
03:06 < tommorris> if you come to Wikipedia and get a compact little article that tells you everything you need to know, and it is well-referenced, I'm satisfied
03:07 < dtm_> tommorris: even if it can never go beyond a very short C, huh? ok
03:07 < tommorris> I've written articles exactly like that
03:07 < dtm_> tommorris: when you say you're satisfied, do you mean that wikipedia's consensus on guidelines are satisfieD?
03:07 < TeeTylerToe> some articles on military vehicles can be like 200Kb and not have more than a sentence on the vehicle itself
03:08 < dtm_> TeeTylerToe: wut? how's that
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03:08 < tommorris> dtm_: if there's an article on an obscure novelist and there's only three reliable sources, and we write the best damn article you could on the basis of those reliable sources, it might only be 300 words long. that's okay.
03:08 < TeeTylerToe> Like the blackhawk article. There are 5+ different subarticles as well totalling probably closer to 1,000kb and it only had a single sentence on the helicopter itself
03:09 < TeeTylerToe> If you want to know what pacific island nations have blackhawks, and how many, it's the right article. If you want to know anything about the helicopter...
03:10 < dtm_> if someone would like to give feedback on this, i'd appreciate it. other than the couple of yet-unused extra references. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Smuckola/Dana_Beth_Ardi
03:11 < dtm_> regarding its notability
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03:11 < dtm_> it's not completely clear what *exactly* she does, in a tangible sense, and i haven't found a source for that. but man she's got some press.
03:11 < dtm_> lol
03:11 < dtm_> whatever she does, she's good at doin it! at doin what she do.
03:11 < dtm_> THOUGHT LEADER.
03:12 < foks> so she's a bit like Kim Kardashian then
03:12 < dtm_> could be! less press.
03:13 < TeeTylerToe> are any of those links press?
03:13 < dtm_> i don't know if she's hawt.
03:13 < foks> Also I doubt Kim has a PhD, bless her
03:13 < dtm_> foks: looooool
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03:13 < tommorris> dtm_: I'm not seeing any sigificant coverage in reliable sources. she is mentioned in the footnotes, but those are mentions, not articles about her
03:13 < dtm_> foks: I don't know on that one either!
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03:13 < foks> :P
03:13 < dtm_> tommorris: hm.
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03:14 < dtm_> tommorris: she's writing a book, so that'd be a primary source, and thus just add to the pile, huh?
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03:15 < tommorris> no. GNG requires reliable secondary sources
03:15 -!- gry [~gry@freenode/staff/gry] has joined #wikipedia-en
03:15 < TeeTylerToe> also that she be hot
03:15 < dtm_> so, yes. the pile of not-"reliable secondary sources writing about her rather than just mentioniong her"
03:16 < dtm_> TeeTylerToe: i never even mentioned that. that's just assumed. we're not barbarians here.
03:16 < dtm_> this is cyberspace, where *anyone* could be hot.
03:16 < YuviPanda> dtm_: how is the syntax of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:HashNuke/Exotel looking?
03:16 < dtm_> TeeTylerToe: *you*.... could be hot. and not even know it.
03:16 < dtm_> who's to say?!
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03:16 < TeeTylerToe> but yea, no indication of any reputable press coverage
03:17 * tommorris points all of you fawning with open mouths at [[WP:HOTTIE]]
03:17 < dtm_> YuviPanda: "Rs. 1 Crore" this is some kind of alien lingo which you might expand
03:17 < dtm_> tommorris: what! is that a thing?
03:17 < TeeTylerToe> Rs is currency?
03:17 < YuviPanda> dtm_: hmm, so that's the way it is reported in
03:17 < YuviPanda> TeeTylerToe: yes, INR
03:17 < YuviPanda> should I convert to 'millions' and USD?
03:17 < YuviPanda> or is there a template?
03:18 < YuviPanda> crore would be https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crore
03:18 < tommorris> dtm_: read it. it's written with tongue firmly in cheek
03:18 < dtm_> YuviPanda: yeah there's a template. there's {{US$}} i think, and maybe others, but you should at least wikilink, explain, and convert it
03:18 < YuviPanda> dtm_: so, Rs. 1 Crore (<equivalent USD>)?
03:18 < dtm_> YuviPanda: coz especially in the english wiki, there's no expectation that a person knows what that means
03:18 < YuviPanda> without designation?
03:18 < dtm_> YuviPanda: yeah i guess
03:18 < YuviPanda> ok
03:18 < YuviPanda> doing it
03:19 < dtm_> and wikilink to [[crore]] i guess. i've never heard that word in my life.
03:19 < dtm_> and how did Shivakumar get to be known by one word?
03:19 < YuviPanda> that's his name
03:19 < dtm_> seriously?
03:19 < YuviPanda> a lot of us have just one name, y'know :)
03:19 < dtm_> what.
03:20 < YuviPanda> my dad's name is simply 'Thangamani' for example
03:20 < dtm_> also, what.
03:20 < YuviPanda> single names are common
03:20 < YuviPanda> (India)
03:20 < dtm_> wtf, over.
03:20 < YuviPanda> we have initials though
03:20 < YuviPanda> so he is 'Thangamani <initial>"
03:21 < dtm_> YuviPanda: you should add this to each <ref> --> accessdate=June 3, 2013
03:21 < YuviPanda> oh
03:21 < YuviPanda> ok
03:21 < YuviPanda> ah, okay
03:21 < dtm_> YuviPanda: but i just made an edit.
03:21 < dtm_> minorly.
03:21 < foks> I have an indian friend with lots of names, but he'll only answer to one of them
03:21 < dtm_> so, carry on.
03:21 < YuviPanda> dtm_: okay, so I'll wikilink 'Rs.'
03:21 < dtm_> foks: lolwut
03:21 < foks> and shorten the others to MC
03:21 < YuviPanda> oh yeah
03:22 < YuviPanda> see for example
03:22 < YuviPanda> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thisara_Perera
03:22 < dtm_> YuviPanda: i guess you need a period after "G"
03:22 < YuviPanda> this guy
03:22 < YuviPanda> he's only known as 'Thisara Perera' and most people ignore the rest of the names
03:22 < dtm_> YuviPanda: {{reflist | 2 }}
03:22 < dtm_> if you like
03:22 < YuviPanda> it's not long enough for that is it
03:23 < dtm_> YuviPanda: use {{Official website|http://exotel.in/}}
03:23 < YuviPanda> where?
03:23 < YuviPanda> external link?
03:23 < YuviPanda> or?
03:23 < dtm_> length is irrelevant; it'll go into two columns if you want
03:23 < dtm_> remove ==external link==
03:23 < dtm_> it's redundant
03:23 < dtm_> tommorris: amirite
03:23 < dtm_> tommorris: the {{official website}} in the infobox is redundant to ==External links==, right?
03:23 < dtm_> inherently?
03:24 < tommorris> No, include both
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03:24 < dtm_> personally i dont think so. just asking about policy.
03:24 < dtm_> coz it's about readability
03:24 < dtm_> put it where it's expected and such
03:24 < tommorris> things aren't redundant to what's in the infobox. the infobox is just a place to put that stuff in an infoboxxy way ;)
03:24 < dtm_> YuviPanda: and i guess you're in business
03:24 < dtm_> tommorris: kthx
03:25 < YuviPanda> fixing the crore issue
03:25 < dtm_> tommorris: so you say Dana Beth Ardi is a no-go as it stands?
03:25 < dtm_> tommorris: given that article draft, how many secondary RSes would you want?
03:25 < tommorris> dtm_: "multiple". 2 or 3 is the minimum really
03:26 < dtm_> tommorris: this is a quasi-RS, right? http://www.refresher.com/addebrand.html
03:26 < dtm_> tommorris: that's one which i had referenced but not yet cited or synthesized.
03:26 < dtm_> they're talking about her.
03:26 < tommorris> dunno. that seems... worth discussing on RSN
03:26 < dtm_> and explaining her and such
03:26 < dtm_> only 2 or 3 huh?
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03:26 < dtm_> man that's kinda flimsy!
03:27 < dtm_> ^_^
03:27 < dtm_> but hey we're generalizing planet earth here
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03:27 < tommorris> 2 or 3 *good* sources are all one needs to write an article... :)
03:27 < YuviPanda> dtm_: so currency conversion, I dunno. Since value of $ fluctuates...
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03:28 < dtm_> YuviPanda: can you give an approximate range?
03:28 < dtm_> like 1-5 million dollars
03:28 < dtm_> just something that gives a non-nothingness of a clue
03:28 < YuviPanda> it was around 500, 000 USD when the deal was done
03:28 < dtm_> i mean a person shouldn't be expected to even know that that is *money*.
03:28 < YuviPanda> I wikilinked first mention of Rs and Crore
03:28 < dtm_> that's like wtf to the max
03:28 < YuviPanda> hehe
03:29 < dtm_> after having had a person with one freaking name
03:29 < YuviPanda> hehe
03:29 < dtm_> that's where you're thinkin "okay they're making ALL OF THIS UP."
03:29 < YuviPanda> so it was 500,000 USD
03:29 < YuviPanda> at that time
03:29 < YuviPanda> it is reported at http://techcircle.vccircle.com/2012/08/31/techcircle-saas-forum-2012-announces-top-10-saas-startups-in-india/
03:29 < dtm_> ok
03:29 < YuviPanda> can that be considered a reference for it?
03:29 < YuviPanda> and shall I include the 500,000 USD number with that ref?
03:29 < dtm_> if that's what it says and it's correct yes
03:30 < dtm_> well done
03:30 < YuviPanda> it says 'Exotel secured Rs 2.5 crore ($0.5 million) from Mumbai Angels and Blume Ventures'
03:30 < YuviPanda> so
03:30 < YuviPanda> 0.5 million
03:30 < dtm_> tommorris: dude seriously i've been grilled to oblivion and back by peopole in this channel, over drafts that i've written which were twice as substantial as what YuviPanda is writing lol
03:31 < YuviPanda> oh, dtm_ i've the 500,000 USD line in a more reliable source
03:31 < YuviPanda> http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2013-03-26/strategy/38039994_1_ishwar-sridharan-exotel-mumbai-angels
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03:31 < YuviPanda> but it is already used in the article
03:31 < YuviPanda> should I just insert another ref?
03:31 < dtm_> my goal has always been to write unimpeachable articles, but still, i was held to a very high community standard
03:31 < YuviPanda> or is there a way I can refer to it again?
03:31 < dtm_> even at first publishing
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03:31 < dtm_> YuviPanda: yes that's why you name them. then you say this --> <ref name="that one thing"/>
03:31 < dtm_> to reference them a second time
03:31 < YuviPanda> ah
03:32 < YuviPanda> got it
03:32 < dtm_> i mean to cite them a second time
03:32 < YuviPanda> doing
03:32 < dtm_> this is your abstraction between a reference and its inline citation
03:32 < dtm_> YuviPanda: so i guess according to tommorris, you can click the arrow at the top and use 'move' to move it to <Article> status. your wish has been granted; long live Jambi.
03:33 < dtm_> and then add Categories
03:33 < dtm_> and a Talk page
03:33 < dtm_> i mean. before you move it.
03:33 < dtm_> YuviPanda: see [[Mitch Markovich]] for an example of a Talk page setup
03:33 < YuviPanda> yessir
03:33 < kondi> YuviPanda: what article are you working on?
03:34 < dtm_> kthx
03:34 < YuviPanda> kondi: User:HashNuke/Exotel
03:36 < kondi> ah
03:36 < YuviPanda> dtm_: okay, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:HashNuke/Exotel good enough?
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03:36 < YuviPanda> i'll probably need to add categories but
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03:37 < kondi> YuviPanda: mind if I edit it?
03:37 < YuviPanda> go ahead!
03:38 < YuviPanda> kondi: but i'm going to move it to mainspace shortly
03:38 < kondi> YuviPanda: I need only 5 minutes
03:38 < YuviPanda> yessir!
03:39 < kondi> YuviPanda: Yuvar my sir :P
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03:43 < kondi> YuviPanda: done, will edit after you move it
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03:44 < YuviPanda> dtm_: kondi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exotel
03:44 < YuviPanda> \o/
03:44 < YuviPanda> thank you :)
03:45 < kondi> :D
03:46 < YuviPanda> dtm_: mitch markovich doesn't seem to exist?
03:47 < kondi> YuviPanda: are you entering references manually?
03:47 < YuviPanda> using the tool
03:47 < YuviPanda> on top
03:47 < YuviPanda> in the toolbar
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03:50 < kondi> we can wikilink the publisher/newspaper name. Also in case of news type ref we should enter the date of publication.
03:51 < YuviPanda> kondi: ah, didn't know
03:51 < YuviPanda> will remember
03:51 < YuviPanda> this is the first time ever i've inserted a cite
03:51 < YuviPanda> so
03:51 < YuviPanda> \o/
03:51 < kondi> \o/
03:52 < kondi> I actually keep doing this in office
03:53 < YuviPanda> :D
03:53 < YuviPanda> can you fix the refs on this one?
03:55 < kondi> will do shortly :)
03:55 < kondi> I'm messing with css width issue
03:55 < kondi> right now
03:59 < YuviPanda> :)
04:00 < YuviPanda> thanks kondi
04:00 < YuviPanda> now i'm off to study
04:00 < YuviPanda> thanks kondi, dtm_
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04:01 < PinkAmpersand> anyone have any guesses as to who http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Buffbills7701 is a sock of?
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04:03 * jps wonders whether it's okay to try to prevail in a content dispute by offering eternal life and interstellar travel http://cryonicsasia.com
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04:06 < gry> content of what?
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04:12 < jps> gry: I think there are about a half dozen content disputes in which I could probably prevail given time, but some of the opposition is conflicted
04:13 < jps> meaning, they are willing to spend money to convince people of non-truths
04:13 < gry> ah someone tries to add lie into wikipedia and you prove them false? is that called a content dispute?
04:13 < jps> however, I believe that there are still avenues of persuasion open to me
04:13 < jps> yes
04:13 < gry> joy, thought it'd be not very hard
04:14 < gry> I mean, hard to stop whoever tries to add the lie, but not too hard to establish them false
04:14 < jps> well, some corporate interests are very wealthy, and very skilled at making decided questions look undecided
04:14 < TeeTylerToe> You'd be surprised
04:15 < jps> the Koch brothers are trying to buy Tribune Newspapers, including the LA Times
04:15 -!- dekiss [~dekiss@77.28.7.13] has joined #wikipedia-en
04:15 < jps> sometimes I wonder whether hierarchy is the only thing keeping us from unblemished truth
04:15 < gry> do you work for wmf or do you do all that in your free time for free?
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04:15 < gry> quite a bit, yeah
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04:16 < jps> I volunteer like most wikipedians, but I support an eventual path to long term contributor compensation
04:16 < jps> even if I don't get there with you, I will still try to point the way to the Promised Land
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04:20 < dekiss> jps can you take me with you ^^
04:21 < dekiss> no seriously how to volunteer for wikipedia?
04:22 < jps> http://j.mp/wikistart
04:22 < dekiss> ty
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04:29 -!- russavia [~russavia@wikimedia/Russavia] has joined #wikipedia-en
04:30 < kondi> russavia: Hey
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04:35 < jps> what is up with UK? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22752201 + http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jun/02/we-pay-high-price-plutocrats + http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jun/02/britain-bankrolls-the-super-rich
04:35 < jps> why do people always blame the socialists for harming others when it's the anti-socialists who concentrate wealth?
04:36 < jps> it's just libertarians, right?
04:37 < jps> dekiss: I guess if you want to hitch a ride http://imgur.com/a/fd8Rp go ahead and found a non-Asia version of http://cryonicsasia.com
04:38 < jps> be excellent to each other
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04:57 < Stryn> hi, whether on en-wiki a bot who is updating the featured and good article status for interwiki links?
05:00 < NotASpy> ah, the Guardian being, well, the Guardian. Out of touch and completely devoid of plot. They paid their CEO £642,000 in 2012 (and that's with 12% increase over 2011 too). Hypocritics, the whole lot of them.
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05:03 < wctaiwan> NotASpy: are hypocritics critics of hippos or...? :P
05:04 < NotASpy> as they generally wallow around in some sort of misery, quite possibly.
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05:04 < russavia> wctaiwan -- did you see this one? http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Argentina_Roundpants.jpg
05:04 < wctaiwan> yes, I was :('ing over your absence since I couldn't show it to you.
05:04 < wctaiwan> bloody hilarious.
05:05 < russavia> pissed myself badly with it
05:07 * kondi stabs russavia
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05:07 < russavia> why kondi...whhyyyyyyy
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05:09 < wctaiwan> good morning, GorillaWarfare
05:09 < GorillaWarfare> Morning, wctaiwan
05:09 < Qcoder00> Greetings humans
05:09 < GorillaWarfare> Hey Qcoder00
05:10 < wctaiwan> russavia: tis a shame the guy doesn't appear to be getting wings for it. Even if you're not fond of the abuse of "hue" (as someone who can't speak portuguese I was okay with it), it's still pretty dang good.
05:10 < kondi> hello people!
05:10 < wctaiwan> oh, I see you managed to get it CC-licensed :)
05:11 < russavia> all of his are -- http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&search=2013052410007094&fulltext=Search
05:12 < GorillaWarfare> What on earth?
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05:15 * GorillaWarfare curls up on the floor of the chan
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05:17 * petan eats GorillaWarfare
05:18 < GorillaWarfare> :<
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05:19 < wctaiwan> GorillaWarfare: it's an internet meme that got russavia into a bit of on-wiki trouble.
05:19 < GorillaWarfare> Ah
05:19 < GorillaWarfare> I've never seen it before
05:20 < wctaiwan> basically comics portraying countries as balls and making fun of stereotypes.
05:20 < GorillaWarfare> Yeah
05:20 < Qcoder00> Scotball raves about "You can take out edit-right but you can ne'er tajke OUR FREEDOM!!"
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05:21 < NotASpy> they're possibly the most retarded meme in the history of the internet.
05:21 < GorillaWarfare> Ehh
05:22 < GorillaWarfare> Dolan comics are up there
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05:23 < wctaiwan> NotASpy: meh, I enjoy it.
05:23 < wctaiwan> the good ones are good, anyway, and the subreddit that hosts the ones I read tends to do a good job of steering clear of racism.
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05:28 < Qcoder00> wctaiwan: Britball is going to have an almighty row with Scotball soon...
05:29 < wctaiwan> doubt it.
05:29 < russavia> http://i.imgur.com/DT716wj.png that's about the closest it comes to racism, etc -- and it's bloody funny
05:29 < Qcoder00> Referenda is some time in 2014 I think
05:30 < wctaiwan> did someone break http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Casenav ?
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05:36 < wctaiwan> 'afternoon, Ironholds
05:37 < Ironholds> hey wctaiwan
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05:44 < Soapy> http://thedoghousediaries.com/5128
05:47 < wctaiwan> Soapy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JnkHYTWxCw
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05:50 < Soapy> that song must have come from soemwhere else
05:50 < wctaiwan> yes
05:50 < wctaiwan> randy newman.
05:50 < wctaiwan> I think they did a good job with it though.
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05:51 < Soapy> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_People
05:51 < Soapy> ah yes
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06:26 < Qcoder00> Where do I mention cultural references to one work, in another?
06:26 < Qcoder00> TV Tropes?
06:29 < GorillaWarfare> Qcoder00: In a Wikipedia article, you mean?
06:30 < Qcoder00> Well the BBC Radio verison of Pratchett's Night Watch has an obvious reference to Life on mars in it's second episode
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06:31 < TOS> TV Tropes may be what you want, but I doubt it
06:32 < closedmouth> does IMDb do radio plays? eh, probably not
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06:42 < TOS> Does anyone know about the green and the blue bullets? They're probably new
06:43 < GorillaWarfare> TOS: Huh?
06:43 < GorillaWarfare> Oh
06:43 < GorillaWarfare> Hm
06:43 < GorillaWarfare> I see blue ones
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06:44 < GorillaWarfare> TOS: Where do you see green?
06:45 < TOS> "Pages that have been changed since you last visited them are shown with a green bullet."
06:45 < GorillaWarfare> Hm
06:46 < GorillaWarfare> I see that too
06:46 < GorillaWarfare> But my watchlist doesn't have _any_ bullets, blue or green
06:50 < Soapy> i think you have to disable the enhancesd watchlist
06:50 < TOS> I see it to the left of the diff
06:50 < Soapy> and ts not what id call a "bullet', looks more lik e a ball
06:53 < Qcoder00> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Philippine_Railways_MRT_North_Avenue_Station.jpeg - FOP not applicable - the building is generic
06:58 < TOS> So anyone knows about these bullets? I would want to personalise them
07:00 < Soapy> TOS: I think it's part of the watchlist
07:00 < Soapy> "last edited since last visit" is in green, others blue
07:00 < Soapy> it's a replacement for the bold/italic version
07:00 < dekiss> guys please give me some good reading material on science something mind blowing, thanks in advnace
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07:03 < TOS> Soapy Do you know where to find the discussion or the feedback page?
07:04 < Soapy> i dont know if there is a discussion
07:04 < Soapy> i think it's part of the site's CSS
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07:04 < Soapy> there's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Customizing_watchlists
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07:05 < Soapy> which will help you get rid of it, but I dont know if you can just "tweak" it
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07:05 < Soapy> i think its better to use the enhanced view anyway
07:05 < Soapy> but to each his own
07:06 < Soapy> but afaik there is no "Media:watchlist.css" or such that would give a discussion just about teh watchlist
07:08 < Qcoder00> dekiss: Try Quantam Phyiscs
07:09 < Qcoder00> If you aren't shocked you haven't understood it
07:09 < Qcoder00> ;)
07:09 < Soapy> oh the kisser is back
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07:16 < closedmouth> dekiss: http://www.thekeyboard.org.uk/Quantum%20mechanics.htm
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07:17 < ToAruShiroiNeko> obama just gave a speech on mental health, obama survivied unhurt
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07:18 < Soapy> "Unable to get Congress to approve background checks, an assault weapons ban and other limits on firearms, the president has vowed to do what he can through executive action."
07:19 < Soapy> in other words hes just trying to revive the gun thing again
07:19 < ToAruShiroiNeko> hmm?
07:19 < ToAruShiroiNeko> he didnt mention guns
07:19 < Soapy> you said he gave a speech about mentally ill people
07:20 < Soapy> so i went to google news and that was the first result
07:20 < Soapy> basically hes trying to expand the definition of 'mentally ill' to get more people dependent on the government
07:21 < Soapy> the bill was defeated in Congress but he's not giving up
07:21 < Qcoder00> Erm..
07:21 < Soapy> basically he's going to have 1/4 of America not only lose the right to defend themselves from crime but also be at a disadvantage when it comes to passing background checks to get a job
07:22 < Qcoder00> Some people will be very worried about a president tyring to push measures through over Congress
07:22 < Qcoder00> Excutive bypass is NOT liked by American voters
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07:22 < ToAruShiroiNeko> if 93% of them support it, I doubt they will complain
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07:23 < Soapy> its just like the health care bill
07:24 < Soapy> where they decided to basically raise prices for EVERYONE and then make people plead to the government for a voucher that will bring the price of health insurance back down to an affordable level
07:24 < Soapy> so that a lot of people who used to be able to afford to go to the hospital on their own, now have to hope the government will help them out
07:24 < Qcoder00> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22749745
07:25 < Qcoder00> Soapy: Universal premiums would be cheaper
07:25 < Qcoder00> and you can recover those through existing IRS mechanisms
07:25 < Soapy> “What, you cant afford to pay $3000 out of the $12000 you make each year just for insurance, plus the cost of the healthcare bills themselbes? well let’s see if you qualify for a subsidy, get in line”
07:27 < Qcoder00> In the UK, The tax rate is about 25%... +11% Govt Insurance premium
07:27 < Qcoder00> How does that compare with the US>
07:27 < Qcoder00> ?
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07:29 < Qcoder00> As Manning's Trial has started, I wonder what Anonymous will be up to
07:29 < Qcoder00> I've not heard about anything major from them for a while
07:29 < Soapy> i dont know what you mean
07:29 < Soapy> In the UK, The tax rate is about 25%... +11% Govt Insurance premium <--- of what?
07:29 < Qcoder00> Gross Income
07:29 < Soapy> the patient pays 11% of the healthcare bill?
07:30 < Qcoder00> No
07:30 < Qcoder00> NHS is free
07:30 < Qcoder00> the 11% is a social insurance premium and pays for Welfare as well as the NHS
07:31 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Anonymous is busy DDoSing turkey
07:32 < Qcoder00> HAh
07:32 < Qcoder00> DDosing is par for the course...
07:32 < ToAruShiroiNeko> I DDoS your face
07:33 < Qcoder00> If Anoymous had strategic directions, they would start informing thew world about human rights abuse sunder the regime
07:33 < Qcoder00> I.E Defacements as opposed to straight DDoS
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07:33 < ToAruShiroiNeko> thats n ot much of a strategy
07:33 < ToAruShiroiNeko> defacements require actual hacking
07:33 < Soapy> in America under Obama’s system you pay 10% of your income to get a crappy insurance where youre staffed by people who say things like “you realize this is catastrophic-only coverage, right? this is meant for people who have no health problems and dont actually need to go to the hospital ever”
07:33 < ToAruShiroiNeko> annoymous prefers high profile DDoSes since the media cant tell the difference
07:33 < Qcoder00> True, but if you put an abuse image up , you can than get the site blocked officialy...
07:34 < Qcoder00> ;)
07:34 < Soapy> and then your bill ends up being almost as high as that for someone with no insurance, which is the point of why there has to be a fine for not buying insurance now
07:34 < Qcoder00> Because an 'abuse image' could be considered illegal content.
07:34 < ToAruShiroiNeko> I dont like defacements to be honest
07:34 < ToAruShiroiNeko> you victimise people using the service and effectively censor away information available on the website
07:34 < Soapy> real health insurance will cost somewhere around 30% of the income for the poor
07:35 < Qcoder00> At least in the US people do recover the cost of negligence realted accidents
07:35 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Soapy in the US 98% of healthcare related costs end up in someones pockets
07:35 < ToAruShiroiNeko> not toctors not patients
07:35 < Qcoder00> In the UK, I've rarely heard of examples of the NHS recovring the costs of treating neglligence by industry
07:36 < ToAruShiroiNeko> of course not
07:36 < ToAruShiroiNeko> its actually regulated
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07:36 < Qcoder00> Technically the NHS could recover the cost of Road Traffic smashes from insurers...
07:36 < Qcoder00> but again i don't hear of them doing so on a regular basis
07:37 < ToAruShiroiNeko> obama to run for office for queen of england
07:37 < Qcoder00> Silly... the UK doesn't have an elected head of state
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07:38 < ToAruShiroiNeko> not yet,
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07:38 < Qcoder00> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-22752998 - Can't wait to see the Conservpedia stance on that
07:38 < Qcoder00> Oral Sex can KILL YOU!
07:38 < Qcoder00> XD
07:39 < ToAruShiroiNeko> use oritection during iral sex?
07:40 < ToAruShiroiNeko> mouth wash?
07:40 < tommorris> let's be clear: eating pussy, not sucking dick. important distinction.
07:40 < ToAruShiroiNeko> animal rights!
07:40 < ToAruShiroiNeko> pussies have feelings too!
07:40 < GorillaWarfare> ToAruShiroiNeko: Dental dams
07:41 < ToAruShiroiNeko> oh wait
07:41 < topaz> Saran Wrap is the common recommendation when dams aren't easily available
07:41 < ToAruShiroiNeko> other type of pussies right?
07:41 < Son_Gohan> I can't wrap my head around the thought proccess of enjoying oral sex if you're the receiver...
07:41 < topaz> there isn't really anything new here, except for a very high profile person saying that's how it happened to him
07:41 < ToAruShiroiNeko> would bill clintons speeches count as oral sex?
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07:42 < ToAruShiroiNeko> just how much oral sex is enough to cause cancer?
07:43 < ToAruShiroiNeko> was he marathoning?
07:43 < GorillaWarfare> ToAruShiroiNeko: It was because of HPV
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07:45 < ToAruShiroiNeko> hyper pussy virus?
07:45 < petan> hygiene-lacking pussy virus
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07:46 < topaz> are all of you guys really unfamiliar with HPV and how it's transmitted?
07:47 < petan> I think there is this "wikipedia" thing, which probably contains information about this :o
07:47 < ToAruShiroiNeko> cant understand without sex drawings :p
07:48 < petan> I am sure commons is full of sex drawings...
07:48 < petan> basically that is nearly all what commons is about... I think there are some real pictures as well :>
07:50 < ToAruShiroiNeko> need hd video in space
07:51 < topaz> welcome to a world produced by abstinence-only education.
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07:53 < sdamashek> legoktm: you pinged me?
07:53 < TheDruId> Abstinence is still 100% effective.
07:53 < GorillaWarfare> topaz: ++
07:54 < ToAruShiroiNeko> TheDruId you mean super effective
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07:56 < closedmouth> Son_Gohan: wait, what?
07:56 < closedmouth> are you serious?
07:58 < TOS> Why so serious?
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07:58 < Soapy> closedmouth likes oral sex? wouldnth ave guessed, given the name
07:59 < closedmouth> o_o
07:59 < ToAruShiroiNeko> thats how conservative oral sex happens
07:59 < Soapy> true
08:00 < tommorris> Soapy: to be fair, he may enjoy getting if not giving.
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08:03 < ToAruShiroiNeko> sharing is caring
08:05 < Qcoder00> Ewww
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08:19 < Qcoder00> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ruud_Koot.jpg - WHy is this protected?
08:19 < wctaiwan> Snowolf: quick PM?
08:20 < TheDruId> Anti- botvandalism.
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08:21 < Soapy> well why *isnt* it on commons then?
08:21 < Soapy> just the author doesnt want it there?
08:24 < TheDruId> Unless it's going to be used outside of en.Wikipedia, why would it need to be on Commons?
08:25 < Soapy> ‘cause its free-use
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08:25 < Soapy> technicaklly he cant prevent someone from using it anywhere else on the internet,. including commons
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08:37 < Koi> closedmouth: I assume you're having fun o.o
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09:50 * TOS slaps mareklug around a bit with a large trout
09:50 < Bradford> ._.
09:50 -!- matt_buck is now known as mattbuck
09:50 < mareklug> TOS fuck you, Calcutta Girl Shopper.
09:51 < TOS> mareklug: Peace dude! There may be ladies around
09:52 < mareklug> TOS listen, Girl Merchant, you started with the fish
09:53 * TOS offers mareklug a cookie
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09:55 < legoktm> sdamashek: yeah i was wondering if you had the list of all the edit summaries that classify as a revert somewhere that voxelbot uses
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10:07 < sdamashek> legoktm: ooo, that I do
10:08 < sdamashek> legoktm: http://bots.wmflabs.org/~vacation9/VoxelBot/report.txt
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10:08 < legoktm> er no
10:08 < legoktm> i want the words in the edit summaries that you're looking for
10:08 < legoktm> the regexes basically
10:08 < sdamashek> oh
10:09 < sdamashek> one sec...
10:10 < Ocaasi> Hey folks. I am working on a javascript gadget... I was at the hackathon in Berlin and was advised that timo (sp?) was a bit of a guru in this area. Anyone know his username? Cheers.
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10:11 < Ocaasi> nm, found it!
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10:13 < sdamashek> legoktm: https://github.com/Vacation9/Voxel-Bot/blob/master/includes.py#L8-9
10:13 < legoktm> woot thanks
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10:35 < ToAruShiroiNeko> legoktm so is tear gas good for health?
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10:36 < TheDruId> It always cleaned out my sinuses. Four seasons in South Korea, Summer, Fall, Winter, and Demonstration.
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10:37 < ToAruShiroiNeko> TheDruId tear down this wall mr. kim jong un?
10:37 < ToAruShiroiNeko> as in tear gas it down?
10:38 < ToAruShiroiNeko> I am reading about protestors returning an AK 47 assult rifle to the police
10:39 < ToAruShiroiNeko> quotedly the weapon was left in a cop car that was captured by the protestors
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10:46 < Qcoder00> The protestors in Turkey returned weapons to the cops?
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10:56 < TheDruId> I remember twice soldiers left them during exercises; one in a store in a town, one in a phone booth on base (when phone booths existed).
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10:59 < dtm_> how do i get rid of this redirect? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Smuckola/Frank_Arsenault
11:00 < TheDruId> dtm_, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion
11:00 < dtm_> TheDruId: kthx
11:01 < TheDruId> dtm_, or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Criteria_for_speedy_deletion#Redirects
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11:13 < dtm_> TheDruId: i dont even know how to actually access the redirect. i dont know how to derive the url of the page that it's at.
11:13 < dtm_> if i surf to the aforementioned url, it just redirects!
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11:21 < TheDruId> dtm_, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Smuckola/Frank_Arsenault&redirect=no for future reference, just click where it shows you were redirected from.
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11:22 < mareklug> interesting fact: Debian's gzip on ppc corrupts absolutely (it is incompatible with guzip on the Mac OS X or on NetBSD)
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11:22 < mareklug> thank heaven tar works as expected
11:23 < mareklug> dtm_ I think this calls for immediate upgrading to Debian 7, in case the fuckers fixed this godawful epic fail.
11:23 < dtm_> :-o
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11:24 < mareklug> also, drag and drop across network does not work in Xfce on Debian -- says "this operation is unimplemented" lol
11:24 < dtm_> TheDruId: oh well duh! i seriously thought i'd done that. i thought that was the first thing i did. i guess i didn't click exactly.
11:24 < dtm_> TheDruId: thanx.
11:24 < dtm_> mareklug: noted.
11:24 < dtm_> mareklug: also, lol.
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11:52 < nsh> WRONG.
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11:55 < TheDruId> nsh?
11:55 < nsh> somebody probably said something wrong at some point before the lull in conversation
11:55 < nsh> i just didn't want to accidentally let it slide
11:56 < nsh> you'd be surprised how consistently wrong everyone is
11:56 < TheDruId> Like use of ALLCAPS as if they were cheaper?
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11:58 < nsh> TheDruId, allcaps was cheaper, historically
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11:58 < TheDruId> Now it just makes my text reader shout.
11:59 < nsh> only the great illusory opulence that ensued after the separation of the dollar from the gold standard at the break up of the Bretton Woods system allowed for the extravagance of lower-case in ASCII
11:59 < nsh> true story
11:59 < D_> SOUNDS LEGIT
11:59 < nsh> i have a large historical archive of early vietnam military communications
11:59 < nsh> it's all CAPS
12:00 < Qcoder00> nsh: Is it scanned ?
12:00 < Qcoder00> And is it declassified?
12:00 < D_> Come to think of it, Morse code is usually rendered in all caps
12:00 < D_> When translated to plaintext, that is
12:00 < nsh> Qcoder00, it's in my imagination, so whichever you prefer
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12:01 < TheDruId> There are military comunications which still transmit only in ALLCAPS; I had to do careful cut and pasting not insert it that way in to posts.
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12:24 < ToAruShiroiNeko> TheDruId so the millitary is pretending to be early teens?
12:24 < TheDruId> No, but granted, that was awhile even before I retired.
12:25 < ToAruShiroiNeko> you retired?
12:25 < ToAruShiroiNeko> O_o
12:25 < ToAruShiroiNeko> I retired after college! :p
12:25 < ToAruShiroiNeko> I am watching people watch http://rt.com/on-air/turkey-protest-istanbul-park/ :p
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12:27 < TheDruId> I retired several years ago.
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12:37 < ToAruShiroiNeko> TheDruId were you tired?
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12:38 < TheDruId> ToAruShiroiNeko, I still am.
12:38 < ToAruShiroiNeko> :o
12:38 < ToAruShiroiNeko> so you tired then re-tired
12:39 < ToAruShiroiNeko> I am in awe of the stream
12:39 < dtm_> ToAruShiroiNeko: hellos.
12:39 < ToAruShiroiNeko> these people dont give a damn about tear gas
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12:41 < TheDruId> ToAruShiroiNeko, Well, it's very annoying, but if you've been through it more than a couple of times, you kind of get used to the stupid parts of it.
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12:43 < ToAruShiroiNeko> me? I have never been gassed in my life
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12:44 < ToAruShiroiNeko> it would be a one time experience for me
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12:45 < ToAruShiroiNeko> TheDruId you got gassed?
12:46 < TheDruId> ToAruShiroiNeko, Annually in training, and often in public while near South Korean universities. Sometimes drifted into subway tunnels.
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12:47 < tommorris> remind me to not suddenly retrain as a cop. as boring as software sometimes can be, nobody has yet tried to tear gas e.
12:47 < tommorris> me
12:48 -!- bharris [~bharris@216.38.130.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
12:48 < TheDruId> tommorris, like I said, you get used to it. Like getting cut off in traffic, then it's over.
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12:51 < ToAruShiroiNeko> tommorris what if you develop AI for tear gas?
12:52 -!- bobrayner [4e978dc4@wikipedia/bobrayner] has joined #wikipedia-en
12:52 < ToAruShiroiNeko> TheDruId do they charge you for the service in south korea?
12:52 -!- nonsenseferret [~nonsensef@wikipedia/nonsenseferret] has quit [Quit: away]
12:52 * ToAruShiroiNeko imagines cops walking around with POS devices
12:52 < tommorris> ToAruShiroiNeko: I work in advertising. unless it can help us sell shit you don't need to people, probably not interested.
12:53 < ToAruShiroiNeko> nothing gets peoples attention more than tear gas
12:53 < TheDruId> ToAruShiroiNeko, Never got charged for it, always cleared my sinuses better than anything else.
12:53 * ToAruShiroiNeko imagines tear gas based advertisement
12:53 < TheDruId> ToAruShiroiNeko, Bullets got my attention a /lot/ faster.
12:53 < ToAruShiroiNeko> TheDruId so I should ask people to go to turkey if they have sinus problems?
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12:54 < TheDruId> ToAruShiroiNeko, If they want the hostility tour, sure.
12:54 < ToAruShiroiNeko> no silly for the tear gas
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12:54 < ToAruShiroiNeko> its a public service it seems
12:54 < bobrayner> turkey just has better media coverage. Some governments use lots more nasty stuff against citizens, without quite as much internet-outrage. ;-)
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12:55 < ToAruShiroiNeko> umm, its very hard to do that in a modern society
12:55 -!- James_F is now known as James_F|Away
12:56 < ToAruShiroiNeko> half of the populution probably would starve without internet-order food :p
12:56 < bobrayner> yes, if you're using a definition of "modern" which doesn't fit many current states.
12:56 < bobrayner> sorry. Mustn't talk politics.
12:56 < ToAruShiroiNeko> mmm
12:56 < ToAruShiroiNeko> monotics?
12:57 < TheDruId> Politics, where everyone thinks everyone else is wrong.
12:57 < bobrayner> I'd love to go back to turkey. Oh, the food... the gözleme...
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12:59 < ToAruShiroiNeko> bobrayner there is a new flavor now
12:59 < ToAruShiroiNeko> gozleme, tear gas flavor :p
12:59 < bobrayner> hmm.
13:00 < ToAruShiroiNeko> it will make you so happy that you'll start crying
13:00 < ToAruShiroiNeko> tears of joy
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13:08 < ToAruShiroiNeko> moooe!
13:08 < jorgeluis> Hello.
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13:48 < ToAruShiroiNeko> mareklug lasers are used in protests: http://rt.com/on-air/turkey-protest-istanbul-park/
13:48 < ToAruShiroiNeko> I keep telling you everything is better with lasers
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13:51 < elkng> is there some script in perl or python that can be used to get information from wiktionary ? so instead of loading entire page http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/na_klar in webbrowser I could use command in console like: "wiktionary_script.pl 'na klar'" and it gets me definition of that phrase ?
13:51 < Swob> there's a bot that does that, so almost certainly yes
13:51 < mareklug> ToAruShiroiNeko is pizza better with black olives or lasers?
13:52 < Swob> Kiefer got blocked again !!
13:52 < elkng> if I would use wiktionary too often I will be huge amount of traffic
13:52 < elkng> Swob: what bot ?
13:53 < Swob> Ive seen it in some channels, Im not sure if it has a name of its own
13:53 < Swob> I could ask the author though
13:53 < Swob> not in #wiktionary atm
13:53 < elkng> can you ask the author ?
13:54 < Swob> yeah
13:54 < Swob> are you user:Elkng on wikipedia?
13:56 < shimgray> elkng, can you use the API in some way?
13:58 < nsh> LASERS
13:58 < nsh> (to every question asked in the last 6 hours)
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14:02 < elkng> was reconnecting
14:02 < elkng> nsh: "LASERS", what ?
14:02 < elkng> Swob: no
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14:06 < nsh> elkng, lasers are the answer
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14:07 -!- peleleoe [55111f78@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.17.31.120] has joined #wikipedia-en
14:07 < peleleoe> anyone know latin?
14:08 < elkng> are there wikipedia pages in latin ?
14:08 -!- Guerillero|TF2 [~Gueriller@209.243.37.82] has joined #wikipedia-en
14:09 < peleleoe> elkng: there was one
14:09 -!- Guerillero|TF2 is now known as Guerillero
14:09 < peleleoe> http://la.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pagina_prima
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14:09 < Bradford> Guerillero: :-*
14:09 < Guerillero> sup
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14:11 < Swob> hi dkiss
14:11 < ToAruShiroiNeko> mareklug pizza is better with black olives but cut with precision lasers
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14:13 < elkng> women get their big boobs with the help of the lasers
14:13 < elkng> and their silicon lips also
14:13 -!- koishi [~weather@cpe-098-027-034-197.triad.res.rr.com] has joined #wikipedia-en
14:14 < ToAruShiroiNeko> it actually looks like two disco lasers used on the police
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14:14 < nsh> lasers are actually the most highly evolved organism in the earth's biosphere
14:14 < nsh> trufax
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14:21 < Peter-C> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=421161261324181
14:23 * Sky2042 laughs at ow's cloak.
14:23 -!- Jasper_Deng is now known as Jasper_Deng_away
14:24 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Peter-C do you guys carry tear gas?
14:24 < Peter-C> Um
14:24 < Peter-C> the PD does
14:24 < Peter-C> they also carry UMPs and AR-15s
14:24 < ToAruShiroiNeko> I mean EMTs
14:24 < Peter-C> Neg
14:24 < Peter-C> I have PD on EVERY call though
14:24 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Ar 15s? lame
14:25 -!- Cncmaster [~chatzilla@wikipedia/Cncmaster] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 21.0/20130511120803]]
14:25 < ToAruShiroiNeko> tear gas should be casually used if the video feed is to be believed
14:25 * ToAruShiroiNeko tosses one into neighbours soup
14:25 < Peter-C> NJ makes it hard to buy a proper rifle, even for cops
14:25 < Peter-C> HK416 <3
14:25 < ToAruShiroiNeko> real cops use A-10s
14:26 < ToAruShiroiNeko> enforce public littering with A-10s
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14:28 < Peter-C> Mhm
14:28 -!- Seahorse [~Seahorse@wikipedia/Seahorseruler] has quit [Disconnected by services]
14:28 < Peter-C> "Speeds monitored by aircraft"
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14:30 < ToAruShiroiNeko> nah thats by appaches
14:30 < ToAruShiroiNeko> http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4064/4656664549_37d3d8cac9_z.jpg
14:31 < Peter-C> mhm
14:31 -!- Brit is now known as Rcsprinter
14:31 < ToAruShiroiNeko> orr... http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_2C_N4Hru3Po/RaPxpB1lDyI/AAAAAAAAAFY/6z7vuz7gKeA/s320/SpeedEnforcement2.jpg
14:31 < ToAruShiroiNeko> something tells me the second case wont end well
14:31 * Sky2042 laughs at ToAruShiroiNeko's first demotivational.
14:34 < Swob> i love that image
14:36 -!- Cyberpower678 [~Cyberpowe@wikipedia/Cyberpower678] has joined #wikipedia-en
14:36 < Cyberpower678> Hi all.
14:37 < Cyberpower678> Has anybody wondered what happened to X!'s edit counter?
14:37 < ToAruShiroiNeko> it got old?
14:38 < Cyberpower678> ToAruShiroiNeko, no.
14:38 < Cyberpower678> It migrated to labs.
14:38 < Cyberpower678> Super fast.
14:39 < Cyberpower678> Assuming labs is TSing like it is now. :/
14:39 < kondi> Cyberpower678: link?
14:39 < ToAruShiroiNeko> TimStarling is not a verb :p
14:39 < Cyberpower678> ToAruShiroiNeko, toolserver. :p
14:39 < ToAruShiroiNeko> hehe
14:40 < ToAruShiroiNeko> I dont count edits
14:40 < ToAruShiroiNeko> its uncountable! :p
14:40 < Cyberpower678> kondi, http://tools.wmflabs.org/xtools/pcount
14:40 < kondi> Thanks Cyberpower678
14:40 < Cyberpower678> Right now labs is having a toolserver moment.
14:40 -!- Jasper_Deng_away is now known as Jasper_Deng
14:40 < Cyberpower678> So it's inaccessible.
14:41 < ToAruShiroiNeko> tsm of the month?
14:41 < Cyberpower678> tsm?
14:41 < Prodego> now that it is on the toolserver
14:42 < Prodego> does that mean the rediculous german opt in thing is no more?
14:42 < Prodego> ridiculous*
14:42 < Prodego> I can not spell ridiculous
14:42 < ToAruShiroiNeko> is the server still owned by wikimedia de?
14:42 < Cyberpower678> ???
14:42 -!- dkiss is now known as dekiss
14:42 < Cyberpower678> Prodego, what?
14:43 < Cyberpower678> ToAruShiroiNeko, yes. Toolserver is getting decommissioned.
14:43 < Prodego> Cyberpower678: you have to opt in to have X!'s edit counter give you detailed results
14:43 < Cyberpower678> Prodego, yes?
14:43 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Isarra dearie :)
14:43 < Prodego> Cyberpower678: this is because of some german law
14:43 < Cyberpower678> ^^
14:43 < ToAruShiroiNeko> german privacy law
14:43 < Prodego> if the tool is no longer on a wikimedia de server
14:43 < ToAruShiroiNeko> then fuck german privacy laws
14:43 < Prodego> then that opt in no longer has to exist, which would be very nice
14:44 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Prodego ya
14:44 < Cyberpower678> There's no problem with having an optin.
14:44 < ToAruShiroiNeko> its on the wikimedia cluster?
14:44 < ToAruShiroiNeko> where does it geo locates?
14:44 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Cyberpower678 I do have a problem
14:44 < Prodego> Cyberpower678: sure there is, that means I can't get detailed results for the editors I'm looking up
14:44 < shimgray> um. while it may be required by German law, it's also a good idea
14:44 < ToAruShiroiNeko> it means we need consent of sockpuppets to analyse their edits
14:44 < Prodego> shimgray: no, it really isn't.
14:44 < ToAruShiroiNeko> shimgray it REALLY isnt
14:45 < Prodego> All the information is already public
14:45 < Cyberpower678> Prodego, what if that editor doesn't want you to see detailed results?
14:45 < ToAruShiroiNeko> public data by very definition is public
14:45 < Cyberpower678> The opt-in isn't going to be removed.
14:45 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Cyberpower678 then he or she shouldnt make edits
14:45 < ToAruShiroiNeko> I can see their history
14:45 < Prodego> so originially there was no opt in
14:45 < shimgray> yes, yes it is. and "all this information is public therefore mashing it all up and coming to conclusions is entirely unproblematic" is a very popular fallacy
14:45 < ToAruShiroiNeko> shimgray the act of opt in takes too much effort
14:46 < Prodego> shimgray: if it is public information I should be able to do whatever I want with it
14:46 < ToAruShiroiNeko> now you could have an opt out if you like
14:46 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Prodego almost anything,
14:46 < shimgray> Prodego, you want to analyse that privately with public info? be my guest. but there are plenty of people who don't like it being done with graphs on a public server
14:46 < ToAruShiroiNeko> its still illegal to tattoo that information on a baby\
14:46 < Prodego> shimgray: sure, but that it their problem
14:46 < ToAruShiroiNeko> I concur with Prodego
14:46 < Prodego> ToAruShiroiNeko: some day that injustice will be righted
14:46 * ToAruShiroiNeko tattoos a baby on Prodego
14:47 < ToAruShiroiNeko> an actual baby not a drawing
14:47 < GorillaWarfare> 7/win 14
14:47 < GorillaWarfare> -.-
14:47 < ToAruShiroiNeko> o hai GorillaWarfare
14:47 < shimgray> this is not a productive argument to have, as we clearly have very different philosophical attitudes.
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14:47 < ToAruShiroiNeko> shimgray sure
14:47 < Prodego> as it is I just use wikichecker
14:47 < ToAruShiroiNeko> at least I am not tossing tear gas
14:47 -!- Guerillero is now known as Guerillero|TF2
14:48 < Isarra> ToAruShiroiNeko: Sorry, I be useless.
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14:48 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Isarra why :(
14:48 < GorillaWarfare> Hello
14:48 -!- Guerillero|TF2 is now known as Guerillero|Away
14:48 * ToAruShiroiNeko hands Isarra a flower
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14:49 < Cyberpower678> I will launch an RfC to decide.
14:49 < Cyberpower678> But I have no plans to remove it now.
14:49 < Isarra> ToAruShiroiNeko: Because. o__o
14:50 * ToAruShiroiNeko hands Isarra another flower
14:50 < ToAruShiroiNeko> I was going to ask you to svgify a logo but ok :(
14:50 * ToAruShiroiNeko whines
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14:57 < Prodego> shimgray: the whole american (and probably canadian and such too) thing is that if you freely give something to someone, then unless you both agreed to some restriction, they should be able to do what they want with it, it is theirs
14:57 < Prodego> shimgray: there is a very different attitude toward that in parts of europe, which I've always found hard to understand
14:57 < Swob> anyone know how to get city boundaries to appear on Google Maps?
14:57 < Swob> Ive seen it before but I didnt do anything to make ith appen, they just appeared
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14:58 -!- Fluff|sleep is now known as Fluffernutter
14:58 < Isarra> Sorry. >.<
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15:00 < Swob> apptly you have to search for a city
15:00 -!- kondi [~kondi@wikimedia/kondicherry] has quit [Quit: leaving]
15:00 < Swob> theres no way to get it to show all city bondaries
15:02 < shimgray> Prodego, yeah, but there's a difference between "I give you all this stuff" and "you have collected all this stuff I did not protect"
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15:02 < shimgray> also, people's basic understanding of privacy is still very pre-digital. we are used to concepts of public information and private information. the sheer volume of what you can infer from the former is not something we're used to yet
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15:03 < shimgray> so, things that are completely public (eg edit activity) often get people very spooked when analysed in detail - because the inferred information is not something they conceptualised as public
15:04 < shimgray> fwiw, I had no idea until this point that ts had put that in for any legal reasons (although I can certainly believe it is required) - I'd assumed it was there because of that very reaction
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15:04 < Prodego> shimgray: the originial tools did not have that restriction, and it was added because of it.
15:05 < shimgray> yeah, I remember it not being there in the distant past
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15:05 < Prodego> So you would respect to the intention of the editors to not reveal particular information
15:05 < Swob> we're still talking about the edit counter, right?
15:05 < Prodego> though in practice their aggregate small disclosures may have revealed it
15:07 < mareklug> ToAruShiroiNeko oh, look, more Belgian cuisine (to use that term loosly) makes it to USA: http://www.businessweek.com/ap/2013-06-03/news-summary-dunkin-rolls-out-doughnut-sandwich
15:07 < shimgray> I would say that us analysing and displaying this sort of information on our users without their consent feels a bit skeevy to me
15:07 < shimgray> their consent = opt-in, and we're great
15:08 < shimgray> sure, the data is public, you can roll the analysis yourself if you want
15:08 < shimgray> but publishing it is a bit different
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15:08 < Swob> we did it for years
15:09 < Firefly67> shimgray, Prodego: Just came in at the right time to listen in on your conversation. I agree that "the inferred information is not something they conceptualised as public" and hence they freak out.
15:10 < shimgray> this isn't just ts, & indeed not even a WP thing
15:11 < ToAruShiroiNeko> opt-ins are disruptive
15:11 < ToAruShiroiNeko> 1 confirmed fatality at hatay provice due to the protests
15:11 < shimgray> we're having to reassess a lot of how we construe privacy; aggregating small details can be unexpectedly powerful and we just don't know how to handle that.
15:11 < Prodego> I think that most of the american editors, myself included, think that it is too much of an infringement on the rights of those who rightfully have access to this data to restrict their ability to analyze it for that reason
15:12 < Prodego> given that all the data was released willingly
15:12 < ToAruShiroiNeko> nothing prevents us to create a breakaway site
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15:12 < Prodego> ToAruShiroiNeko: sure, but now we are debating philosophically, not arguing legally
15:12 < ToAruShiroiNeko> this was imposed on us by some german judge because one guy didnt want their employer to monitor their wikipedia activity
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15:14 < shimgray> Prodego, ah, but then you get into thorny issues around "rightfully have access to this data". you don't have a positive right to access it, you can't take someone to court for not giving it to you, no?
15:15 < IDoH> I would've said hi earlier, but there was someone in en-help who needed...help.
15:15 < shimgray> & released willingly... well, I dunno about you, but I edited Wikipedia. I didn't tick a box saying "please triangulate my commute times". ;-)
15:15 < Prodego> shimgray: more formally I could say have 'freely been given access to the data by its owner'
15:15 < shimgray> I know these are edge cases, but you're packing a lot of implication into being given access to the data
15:15 < shimgray> it's not given, it's just sort of hanging there
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15:16 < Prodego> shimgray: no one reads the TOS anyway, so even if it did say that
15:16 < shimgray> in many ways, your "freely given" statement implies consent - but we're discussing how to give or withold consent, so that doesn't mesh
15:17 < Prodego> shimgray: I believe by making an edit you do consent to your content being released, and the time and date that you made the edit you don't even own anyway, that information comes from the WMF
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15:19 < Prodego> Do you have any rights over the information "User:x made an edit at this time"
15:19 < shimgray> but does it? if it did, we wouldn't need the opt-in; WMF could give consent on their behalf
15:19 < shimgray> again, this gets into conceptual theories of data privacy and data ownership where the US takes a different legal tack to many other places
15:19 < Prodego> shimgray: well the opt in may be due to an abundance of caution in this particular case
15:19 < Ironholds> shimgray: your third clause is generalisable
15:20 < shimgray> but I will say this: our community has shown, many times, that it is strongly and emphatically protective of its own privacy. I think were we to cast this open to a wider consultation, opt-in for this sort of community monitoring tool would be supported
15:21 < shimgray> (presenting it as the status quo ante may skew that, of course!)
15:21 < TOS> Prodego Nobody reads me?
15:21 * TOS is hurt
15:21 < shimgray> tos;dr
15:21 < Prodego> TOS: no, you should just delete all your edits
15:21 * TOS goes ans cries in a corner
15:21 < Prodego> shimgray: I'm not sure
15:22 < Prodego> a vote on such things will probably never happen, and somewhat importantly doesn't need to since such tools do exist completely independantly of the WMF
15:22 < Prodego> independently*, mmm
15:23 < shimgray> Prodego, I should stress I'm not saying such tools shouldn't exist or that people should be able to hide the data - we can go down very futile rabbit holes that way, and public data is public
15:23 < shimgray> it's us publishing (or endorsing the publication) of the automated analysis that I'm uncomfortable with. technically it's the same thing, but there's big conceptual differences.
15:24 < shimgray> we're not in the business of profiling or reporting on our users beyond that needed to technically operate the site (ie datestamped logs and contribs)
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15:25 < ToAruShiroiNeko> shimgray I disagree
15:25 < ToAruShiroiNeko> we had chronic harassers and lobyist activity before
15:25 < ToAruShiroiNeko> we should profile users to see how similar they are to other users
15:26 < Prodego> shimgray: what about the various user experience surveys that are done? Or is that not a problem due to the less specific nature of it?
15:26 < IDoH> ToAruShiroiNeko: We do to some extent.
15:26 < ToAruShiroiNeko> this should be conducted before a checkuser which is a true invasion of privacy if done incorrectly
15:26 -!- bobrayner [4e978dc4@wikipedia/bobrayner] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
15:26 < ToAruShiroiNeko> IDoH by human editors
15:26 < ToAruShiroiNeko> humans in text mining are about 60% accurate
15:26 < ToAruShiroiNeko> computers 90-98%
15:26 < shimgray> ToAruShiroiNeko, congratulations. you are doing an *amazing* job of recapitulaing current UK political debate, keep going :-)
15:26 < IDoH> ToAruShiroiNeko: Oh, you want to do it by bots, okay.
15:26 < ToAruShiroiNeko> IDoH ya :)
15:27 < JustBerry> TOS: Don't cry :/
15:27 < IDoH> Cool
15:27 < ToAruShiroiNeko> computers for the win!
15:27 < JustBerry> :o
15:27 < D_> I, for one, welcome our computerized machine learning precrime wikioverlords
15:27 < IDoH> Yeah, let's do it by bot.
15:27 < ToAruShiroiNeko> D_ \o/
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15:27 < shimgray> Prodego, surveys are definitionally opt-in, surely? but yeah, aggregated data *across* individuals is a lot better than aggregating data on individuals
15:27 < Prodego> shimgray: yes, they would be opt in
15:27 < TOS> Ok, JustBerry
15:28 < JustBerry> TOS: :)
15:28 < ToAruShiroiNeko> shimgray I'd like to see tools that take an article name as input and spit out similar users
15:28 < Prodego> shimgray: so is editing though, and could perhaps your survey responses over time reveal more information than you intended?
15:28 < ToAruShiroiNeko> users that edit near identical topics
15:29 < shimgray> Prodego, hrm. I think yes, they could, but it's almost a big/small data divide. if you aggregated every survey I've ever taken, you could probably deduce something. but I don't take many surveys - I doubt you do, either
15:29 < shimgray> but I've made fifty thousand edits.
15:29 < Prodego> shimgray: far too lazy for that
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15:30 < TOS> Is TOS a reallly common acronym? I've not heard it outside this IRC, JustBerry
15:30 < JustBerry> TOS: Yes... why?
15:30 < Swob> Terms of Service
15:31 < JustBerry> TOS: ^
15:31 < TOS> Oh. Must be a regional thing. I know its Terms of Service, but I havent seen it used outside here
15:31 < shimgray> TOS, you've seen http://tosdr.org/ right?
15:31 < shimgray> Prodego, interestingly, laziness gets at the heart of a lot of this :-)
15:31 < TOS> No
15:32 < JustBerry> TOS: Where are you from?
15:32 < TOS> India
15:32 < JustBerry> TOS: Ah. Keh seh hoh?
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15:32 < shimgray> back in the Good Old Days(tm), you could find a hell of a lot of information on people in public records. you had to work at it, lots of phone calls and queuing, but it was all there
15:33 < ToAruShiroiNeko> shimgray you have no idea how much info is available today
15:33 < Prodego> shimgray: security though large amounts of effort isn't a good method
15:33 < shimgray> the net result was a sort of "privacy of friction". you got privacy simply because to do otherwise was a real hassle.
15:33 < TOS> JustBerry: Its Kaha se ho. But it would do :) Kolkata, actually
15:33 < ToAruShiroiNeko> people willingly post so much on facebook
15:33 < shimgray> oh, it's a terrible method
15:33 < ToAruShiroiNeko> twitter can be datamined for commercial benefit
15:33 < shimgray> but it's the one we built our systems assuming was the default :-)
15:33 < JustBerry> TOS: Ah, I don't quite speak that :P
15:33 < ToAruShiroiNeko> I datamine you
15:33 < nsh> privacy of friction is also what you don't get having sex in a cheap motel
15:33 < nsh> The More You Know...
15:34 < shimgray> now, same data, same "public" state, waaaaay more available.
15:34 < shimgray> bingo, we can find out a lot more. nothing is public that wasn't before, but we have a lot less privacy
15:34 < shimgray> and, as before, we just don't know what to do about it.
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15:35 < Prodego> shimgray: tosdr seems to be quite bad when it comes to describing Wikipedia
15:35 < TOS> JustBerry I figured
15:35 < JustBerry> TOS: :)
15:35 < Prodego> shimgray: given that they don't mention at all that your IP address will be publically stored and recorded as making your edits
15:35 < shimgray> Prodego, yeah, we tend to score weirdly on that sort of service. it's never clear if we're talking about users or readers.
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15:35 < Isarra> ToAruShiroiNeko: If you still need shinies done in a week or two, poke me then. I should be less useless then I hope.
15:35 < JustBerry> TOS: Care to take a guess?
15:36 < Prodego> shimgray: it looks like everything they say about amazon applies to us too
15:36 -!- UnknownNinjaNN2 [638cc8a0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.99.140.200.160] has joined #wikipedia-en
15:36 < TOS> JustBerry What?
15:36 < Prodego> even 'tracks you on other websites'
15:36 -!- UnknownNinjaNN2 [638cc8a0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.99.140.200.160] has quit [Client Quit]
15:36 < shimgray> ...
15:36 < JustBerry> TOS: Never mind.
15:36 < shimgray> how? we hardly track readers ourselves.
15:37 < D_> tosdr seems one of those websites that uses js for things that shouldn't need js
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15:37 < Prodego> shimgray: all the WMF sites share some amount of tracking data
15:37 * TOS gets back
15:37 < D_> Define "some amount"
15:38 < Prodego> "all of"
15:38 < shimgray> I think you could reasonably argue that "other sites" means third-party sites rather than their own subdomains
15:38 < Prodego> potentially
15:39 < D_> Also, in some bout of irony, tosdr.org is asking me store data locally
15:40 < Prodego> how about "You cannot delete your account"
15:40 < Prodego> that definitely applies to Wikipedia :)
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15:41 < JustBerry> :o
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16:09 < koishi> oh boy, yet another way to report people
16:09 < koishi> not that any of it matters because thibbs is angel-status
16:09 < koishi> can't touch that
16:09 < IDoH> koishi: What way is that?
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16:10 < koishi> all i can do is run around in circles like he wants me to
16:10 < koishi> idoh: rfc/u
16:10 < IDoH> Ah, I see.
16:11 < IDoH> That isn't "new".
16:11 < IDoH> But you are undergoing a rfc/u now?
16:12 -!- Sky2042 [~Sky2042@wikipedia/Izno] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:12 < TeeTylerToe> surprising what a mob can do
16:12 < koishi> i am not, unless someone took me there and never told me
16:13 < ToAruShiroiNeko> rfc/u2
16:13 -!- Moskau [~chatzilla@wikipedia/deskana] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:14 < koishi> it's too much for too little. no one's going to actually read what he's been saying and realize that he's literally ignoring stuff. they're just going to go "oh thibbs he's a nice guy helped me with <this>" and then throw me away
16:14 < ToAruShiroiNeko> angels can be corrupted too according to diablo 3
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16:14 < koishi> i'm honestly surprised i've even come as far as i have
16:14 < Swob> i like THibbs
16:14 < ToAruShiroiNeko> and I read my theology from blizzard games!
16:14 < koishi> diablo 3 is corrupting too
16:14 < koishi> so idk
16:14 -!- Fleet|mobile [~timmeh@unaffiliated/fleetflame] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:14 < Swob> youre saying Thibbs has done something wrong and refuses to admit it ?
16:14 < koishi> man not even five minutes ago i caught yet another guy trying to slip that stupid translation into kaze tachinu
16:14 < koishi> even ''''''d it
16:16 < ToAruShiroiNeko> mareklug belgian cousine has always been in the US
16:16 < ToAruShiroiNeko> fries!
16:16 < IDoH> Yummy. Fries.
16:16 < ToAruShiroiNeko> IDoH fires with fries
16:17 -!- harej [~quassel@wikipedia/MessedRocker] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.]
16:17 < ToAruShiroiNeko> salmon with fries
16:17 < koishi> swob: he's done something wrong, he's ruining a discussion, he's ruining standards for at least 3 different fields (graphic design history (yes, even though this isn't really about logos or whatever), '80s technology and computing, probably even general history of video games)
16:17 < koishi> some baaaad things come in 3s, apparently
16:17 < ToAruShiroiNeko> even turd with fries
16:17 < ToAruShiroiNeko> one of those may be a lie :p
16:17 < IDoH> ToAruShiroiNeko: Boca burgers with fries.
16:17 -!- Rcsprinter [~rcsprinte@wikipedia/Rcsprinter123] has quit [Quit: ???? ???? ????? ???????]
16:18 < ToAruShiroiNeko> turkish flavor is tear gas with fries
16:18 < TeeTylerToe> you'd be amazed how some people try to translate "employed technologies developed for widget X including widget Y".
16:19 < koishi> when you start championing reliable sources to the point where you start ignoring obviously more reliable ones because they don't "fit" with you, you either work for one of those less reliable sources and are hoping for google searches or you're just plain being a clown.
16:19 -!- JustBerry|away [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/justberry] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
16:19 < koishi> i hope to /god/ he's the former.
16:19 < koishi> because i'm religious, apparently
16:19 < TeeTylerToe> Some people are just blinded by simple bias. Some groups of people.
16:19 < koishi> and because destructive people really are that destructive
16:20 < koishi> hm
16:20 < TeeTylerToe> It becomes religious, or political
16:20 < koishi> we should probably move the ps3 article to "PS3"; i mean that's what everyone uses right?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
16:20 < TeeTylerToe> the xbox is better, the playstation is better, windows is better, mac is better, linux is better
16:20 < koishi> honestly that's probably valid
16:20 < koishi> i really need to look
16:20 < koishi> but it seems too horrifying
16:21 < TeeTylerToe> A mob from say the rail project who have some religious conviction about the magical properties of steam engines will sink into an article trying to make it say that steam is the best and only form of locomotion
16:21 < dtm_> ToAruShiroiNeko: so are you doing any updates on any wikipedia articles about Turkey, due to all your research and interest?
16:22 < dtm_> TeeTylerToe: are those steam fanatics back again?!?!
16:22 < dtm_> koishi: don't think it!
16:22 < TeeTylerToe> Steam fanatics are actually a thing?
16:23 < koishi> teetylertoe: the problem is that this is just naming. naming! that's all. but this guy worships "reliable sources" so much that apparently names can only come from people who have zero connection to them.
16:23 < koishi> so kotaku could make up whatever name they wanted for the ps3, and if other reliable sources decided to use that too...
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16:23 < koishi> that's what he's saying! i'm serious.
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16:27 < TeeTylerToe> Isn't the official name Playstation 3?
16:27 < koishi> "PlayStation 3", but yeah
16:27 < koishi> CamelCaseIsCool
16:27 < koishi> err
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16:28 < koishi> teetylertoe: easier: remember how the wii was called the revolution in development? like how the gamecube was called dolphin.
16:28 < koishi> what if all these sources kept using revolution or dolphin because they hated the regular names or whatever?
16:28 -!- D1000|Away [~chatzilla@wikipedia/Demiurge1000] has joined #wikipedia-en
16:28 < koishi> that's the kind of ridiculous nonsense thibbs is making me think about
16:29 < koishi> it's scary that he is making me have /less/ respect for kotaku and the like, simply because /they can do things like that get away with it/
16:29 < koishi> (because hey, i'm not usually a kotaku or ign hater like all these cool kids)
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16:31 < koishi> but i think what bothers me most of all is that maybe all these big names simply didn't know better, because they were talking about some old '80s almost-japanese-only tv that's probably not even going to be a neat curiosity to most people, never mind the thing's fame
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16:32 < CrackyWacky> question for those who have a smart phone with a data plan
16:32 < koishi> either way this is all very painful and apparently i'm the only one who has to deal with it
16:32 < JustBerry> Yes, Cracky?
16:33 < CrackyWacky> Did you ever go overboard with your data plan?
16:34 < ToAruShiroiNeko> koishi, how about a dolphin revolution?
16:39 -!- koishi [~weather@cpe-098-027-034-197.triad.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
16:42 -!- Guerillero|Away is now known as Guerillero|TF2
16:42 < Swob> ive never even come close to exceeding my data plan
16:42 -!- Guerillero|TF2 is now known as Guerillero
16:42 < Swob> i get like 2 GB/month, I use about 5% of that
16:42 < Swob> wi0fi is everywhere
16:43 < CrackyWacky> I'm just comparing the CRTC's new rules for mobiles
16:43 < Swob> canada?
16:43 < CrackyWacky> yes
16:43 < CrackyWacky> equivalent of FCC
16:44 < CrackyWacky> ie new rules on contract termination, unlocking, data fees
16:44 < Swob> Canada's one of the worst countries for cellphones
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16:44 < Swob> Seems like it's getting better though
16:44 < Swob> Canada's the only place I've heard of that has "long distance calls" even on cellphones
16:45 < CrackyWacky> well, on dec 2, users who have a contract at least 2 years with their provider can terminate it without paying any additonal fees
16:45 < CrackyWacky> ie a ban on contract break fees
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16:49 < CrackyWacky> capping excessive data fees at 50$
16:49 < CrackyWacky> right to request a unlock after 90 days
16:49 < CrackyWacky> Return their cellphones, within 15 days and specific usage limits, if they are unhappy with their service.
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17:00 < addihockey10> Funpika has fun in the sun
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17:15 < mareklug> dtm_ hey
17:15 -!- nas is now known as zz_nas
17:15 < mareklug> CrackyWacky are you derp?
17:18 < Qcoder00> Some people have no sense...
17:18 * ToAruShiroiNeko pets mareklug
17:19 < Qcoder00> I make some comments about how 'Google is not responsible' for a number of things...
17:19 < mareklug> dtm_ three things: DropTar on the Mac end produces a tar.tgz which when ftp'ed and gunziped, untarred on Mac X 10.8.3 still produces uncrecognizable to PageMaker (and to the naked eye) files. But they are not stripped of the resource fork, no sir, because… b) ta-da! Fucking CS4 InDesign acutally opens them! Yes, indeedee! It needs to be convinced to do so, because ordinarily it does not own up to recognizing them as openable in the
17:19 < mareklug> least. But witness: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/105918205/AmazingGraceInDesignCS4OpensPageMaker6Documents.png And c) the PRAM batteries from Utah arrived. I am going to do surgery now on the dead IIci and see if I get it to rise.
17:19 -!- zz_nas is now known as nas
17:19 < ToAruShiroiNeko> google isnt responsible for the cow level in diablo 2
17:19 < ToAruShiroiNeko> google isnt responsible for the absence of a cow level in diablo 3
17:19 < Qcoder00> Google isn't responsible for govt morality control :)
17:20 < nas> Has #wikipedia-en-sports been referred as the official Wikipedia sports IRC channel?
17:20 < Qcoder00> What suprised me is that there are people on IRC who claim Google is not responsible for removing sick content...
17:20 -!- Hazard-SJ [~Hazard-SJ@wikimedia/Hazard-SJ] has quit [Quit: BRB]
17:20 < Bradford|GTA> ._.
17:20 -!- James_F is now known as James_F|Away
17:20 < ToAruShiroiNeko> google isnt responsible for doing anything more than what law demands
17:21 < Qcoder00> I can't repeat the exact comment here, because of UK Libel laws
17:22 < BlastHardcheese> we all know google runs the internet
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17:22 < Qcoder00> BlastHardcheese: Google is not responsible for the NWO
17:22 < Qcoder00> ;)
17:22 < nas> Bradford|GTA: No spamming in Wikipedia related IRC channels please. Thank you.
17:24 < Bradford|GTA> nas: deja tu fastidio
17:25 -!- Bradford|GTA is now known as Bradford
17:28 < TeeTylerToe> a lot of stuff doesn't show up on google searches these days
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17:31 < Qcoder00> Like
17:32 < Qcoder00> ?
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17:38 < TeeTylerToe> asks, then leaves
17:38 < nas> Is anyone part of any projects under WikiProject Sports?
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17:56 < dekiss> please give me some mind blowing article on wikipedia about science
17:57 < Swob> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encopresis
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18:00 < mareklug> dekiss https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_entanglement
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18:02 < foks> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scanners_(film)
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18:05 < Koi> foks: I was thinking give him [[Color theory (physics]]
18:05 < Koi> THAT is why you must learn art.
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18:05 < foks> Scanners is, at least in one scene, LITERALLY mind blowing
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18:11 < Swob> yay my favorite you tube channel uploaded a new episode
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18:26 * ScientificAlan just joined
18:26 < JustBerry> Hello then, ScientificAlan.
18:27 < ScientificAlan> Hello.
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18:32 < a930913> Oh c***.
18:32 < ScientificAlan> What?
18:33 < ScientificAlan> Edit war? Vandal?
18:33 < a930913> I just shot myself in the foot.
18:33 < ScientificAlan> Congrats.
18:33 < ScientificAlan> Why did you do that?
18:33 < Koi> er...
18:34 < Koi> anyone here want to take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/GarretThePotato ?
18:34 < ScientificAlan> Hey, tornado guy
18:34 -!- anona [~z31fcs@99-90-197-87.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
18:34 < a930913> I was avoiding a security issue, and I just added the security issue to the page I was using to get around it by creating it.
18:34 -!- James_F|Away is now known as James_F
18:34 < Swob> GarretThePotato will be a welcome addition to our admin corps
18:34 < Swob> he'll fit right in
18:34 < ScientificAlan> Lol
18:35 < Koi> Swob: apparently to SPI corps too!
18:36 -!- Nascar1996 [~Nascar199@wikipedia/Nascar1996] has joined #wikipedia-en
18:36 < a930913> In the usage section, is there a question mark in the image? Is my browser playing a funny? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:A930913/wave
18:37 < Swob> i see a blue square
18:37 < a930913> :/
18:37 -!- JKL1234- [AlmostLive@trivialand/player/JKL1234-] has quit [Excess Flood]
18:37 < Swob> kind of looks like a cough drop. something edible
18:37 < a930913> Swob: Click it.
18:38 < a930913> The image contains a ? does it not?
18:38 < Swob> yeah
18:38 < a930913> Is that strange?
18:38 < dtm_> mareklug: i am gonna say that they *are* bereft of their resource fork, but that it doesn't matter, and CS4 can just open it manually. i mean the resource probably only contains the icon, creator,and type.
18:38 < Swob> maybe the question mark doesnt scale with the rest of the image
18:38 < Swob> SVGs are always causing all osrts of problems
18:39 -!- varnent [~varnent@wikimedia/varnent] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
18:39 < a930913> Swob: It works resized offwiki.
18:39 < ScientificAlan> I see no question mark until I click the image... o.O
18:39 < dtm_> tommorris: ahoy sir. is your head all better now? did you get any results on that lunkheaded image deletion ticket? i have gotten no further response.
18:39 -!- zz_nas is now known as nas
18:40 < Sven_Manguard> Anyone here speak Vietnamese?
18:40 < ScientificAlan> No
18:40 < ScientificAlan> I like english.
18:40 < dtm_> english is ....okay.jpeg
18:40 < ScientificAlan> ?
18:40 < Sven_Manguard> That's good for you ScientificAlan. I didn't ask you though, I asked the channel.
18:40 < dtm_> he's a fan.
18:41 < ScientificAlan> Wait, is Vietnamese related to Latin, or is it one of those languages from absolutely nowhere?
18:41 < Swob> loooooool
18:42 -!- nas is now known as zz_nas
18:42 < Swob> youre a good troll Alan
18:42 < ScientificAlan> I wish that was true.
18:42 < ScientificAlan> But you know, you can't always be a troll like me.
18:42 < Swob> the guy who doesnt know where Vietnam is
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18:42 < ScientificAlan> I know where Vietnam is
18:43 < ScientificAlan> It's on earth
18:44 < ScientificAlan> I have a question
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18:45 < ScientificAlan> Does "zz_nas" do anything other than change between that name and "nas"?
18:45 < ScientificAlan> That's all I see them do
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18:57 < dtm_> he's not trollin, he's just inquisitively eclectic
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18:58 < dtm_> ScientificAlan: vietnamese is asian. are there even any asian languages based on latin? COINCIDENCE: just an hour ago, i met a native Japanese who lives a block away, who is a linguist who majored in Italian and latin, who wants to teach me japanese.
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19:13 < ScientificAlan> I have to go, good night
19:13 < ScientificAlan> It's 10 here
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19:22 < mareklug> dtm_ the sick IIci behaves strangely. With the new known drive it would system bomb almost immediately after Welcome to the Macinotsh screen. That's with onboard video. I replaced it with an Apple video card and now it does not system bomb, but it turns off video after a while.. that's with it's old drive. And with the new memory installed and old removed. and of course new PRAM battery. So I think it is likely a power supply issue,
19:22 < mareklug> because it is being flakey. And when I power it down and then try to power it up, the keyboard light and its own power lights flicker dimmy. When I unplug the power cable and replug it, it restarts. And there is no chime, but that could be because the chime is being too soft to hear. So my next step is to pull the power supply from the IIcx.
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19:27 < a930913> mareklug: System bomb === kernel panic?
19:28 < mareklug> I guess. you get a nice little black and white picture with a black circular bomb with a fuse and a nasty message in Chicago font.
19:30 < kylu> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bomb.png
19:31 -!- Nascar1996 [~Nascar199@wikipedia/Nascar1996] has quit [Quit: Good night!]
19:31 < SigmaWP> kylu: hi
19:33 < kylu> 'lo
19:33 < kylu> how's a sigma?
19:34 < SigmaWP> happy ish
19:34 < kylu> well, that's good ish.
19:36 < SigmaWP> yep
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19:37 < kylu> I need to come up with a new hobby, Sigma.
19:37 < kylu> got idears?
19:37 < a930913> kylu: Can you program?
19:38 -!- batfan [4af37a79@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.243.122.121] has joined #wikipedia-en
19:39 < kylu> sure, used to have a toolserver account even.
19:39 < a930913> kylu: Want to help me with WAVE?
19:39 < kylu> dude, there's sound codec libraries that have that all taken care of.
19:40 < kylu> :)
19:40 < batfan> is their a way to ajoin channels
19:40 < a930913> kylu: Web Anti Vandal Engine.
19:41 < kylu> batfan: depends on your client, but usually.
19:41 < kylu> a930913: trying to offload my current bots, actually.
19:41 -!- Falcorian [~Falcorian@wikipedia/Falcorian] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
19:42 < a930913> kylu: Which ones?
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19:42 < TParis> Yay, my tools are working again.
19:42 < TParis> Or rather, X!'s tools on my account
19:42 < a930913> TParis: On the toolserver?
19:42 < a930913> Or the labs?
19:42 < TParis> toolserver
19:42 < kylu> a930913: melos has a bunch that are hosted on my mac, and I've got a swmtbot that's running on here fordewp
19:43 < kylu> de.wp
19:43 < TParis> Only the edit counter and pages created work on labs as far as I know
19:43 < TParis> and the edit counter on labs lacks deleted edits
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19:44 < kylu> mostly written in perl and python, one in .NET/mono
19:44 < kylu> ... which looks really weird, running an .exe from a bash shell.
19:44 < batfan> im on freenode webchat
19:44 < batfan> kylu
19:45 < kylu> batfan: Most web-based clients don't have autojoin capabilities to my knowledge. Someone else might know that one better, but you may enjoy using a dedicated IRC client anyway.
19:45 < batfan> o
19:45 < batfan> i should add it to my mirc
19:45 -!- Jasper_Deng is now known as Jasper_Deng_away
19:45 < kylu> you could do that, as mirc certainly has autojoin.
19:46 < kylu> also, if you click on k. mardam-bey's nose, it squeaks.
19:47 < batfan> its /ns ajoin add #channel
19:47 < batfan> i guess
19:48 < kylu> odd, as /ns help ajoin says there's no help for such a command
19:52 < closedmouth> i don't think nickserv is gonna be autojoining for you
19:53 -!- anona [~z31fcs@99-90-197-87.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
19:53 < Betacommand> kylu: autojoin is controlled by your client
19:53 -!- Logan_ [~Logan@ubuntu/member/logan] has joined #wikipedia-en
19:53 < kylu> Betacommand: I made that point earlier, yes.
19:53 -!- UnknownNinjaNN2 [638cc8a0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.99.140.200.160] has joined #wikipedia-en
19:53 -!- batfan [4af37a79@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.243.122.121] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
19:54 < kylu> otoh, it wouldn't be terribly hard to make a services with a services-run autojoin function... unrealircd, for instance, had an oper command that could force an individual to join a channel.
19:54 < UnknownNinjaNN2> Yesterday, I was talking to someone about how I was remaking a video game.
19:55 < kylu> polybius?
19:55 < UnknownNinjaNN2> Anyone want to talk about it?
19:55 < closedmouth> nope
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19:56 -!- mynx-nith [~blueberry@unaffiliated/mynx-nith] has joined #wikipedia-en
19:56 < UnknownNinjaNN2> Anybody other than closedmouth?
19:57 < TParis> I'm also going to suggest a nope on that one.
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19:57 < UnknownNinjaNN2> What do you think Kylu?
20:00 < UnknownNinjaNN2> The game is here: http://sandbox.yoyogames.com/games/83379-nintendo-nightmare
20:01 < kylu> oh, I remember you posting that...
20:02 < kylu> I want you to beat a game for me, and then we'll talk, okay?
20:02 < UnknownNinjaNN2> What game, it depends...
20:02 < kylu> it should be a pretty short game, fairly easy, but no cheating...
20:02 < kylu> it's called "I wanna be the Guy"
20:02 < UnknownNinjaNN2> What game?
20:02 < kylu> it's called "I wanna be the Guy"
20:03 * kylu makes a record-skipping noise. Zzzrp!
20:03 < UnknownNinjaNN2> Where is it?
20:03 -!- Ironholds is now known as IH|away
20:04 < kylu> here... http://bit.ly/11eoKBP
20:05 < UnknownNinjaNN2> Oh, now I get the joke. :)
20:05 < kylu> you should watch the videos, very entertaining.
20:05 < kylu> anyway, g'ni all.
20:05 < UnknownNinjaNN2> Goodnight.
20:05 < UnknownNinjaNN2> Real quick
20:06 < UnknownNinjaNN2> Do you know swobs username?
20:06 < UnknownNinjaNN2> Wikipedia username
20:06 < IDoH> UnknownNinjaNN2: SoapX
20:06 < kylu> oh, before I go...
20:06 * kylu runs over and big-hugs IDoH! Yay!
20:07 * kylu now goes to sleep. ^.^
20:07 * IDoH hugs Kylu
20:07 < UnknownNinjaNN2> Bye.
20:07 -!- UnknownNinjaNN2 [638cc8a0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.99.140.200.160] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
20:07 < IDoH> UnknownNinjaNN2: Wait a minute, it's just "soap"
20:07 < IDoH> Darn it
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20:13 < SigmaWP> [20:11:21] �<�legobot4�>� [[Poland China pig]] !N http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=558226969 * AlphaPyro * (+46) [[WP:AES|←]]Redirected page to [[Poland China]]
20:14 < SigmaWP> polskí can into 中國
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20:18 < mareklug> " It is the oldest American breed of swine."
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20:26 < Koi> SigmaWP: really? lol
20:26 < SigmaWP> uhuh.
20:26 < SigmaWP> well.
20:26 < Koi> SigmaWP: chinese ftw
20:26 < SigmaWP> That's actually a funny article.
20:26 -!- CensoredBiscuit [~CensoredB@wikipedia/CensoredBiscuit] has joined #wikipedia-en
20:27 < Koi> I read that polski can into zhongguo, im so bad at actually naming characters. I used to just give each character a name :(
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20:27 < Koi> like, reading that correctly was an accomplishment.
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20:35 < batfan> oof
20:35 < batfan> editing on a mobile doesnt seem easy
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20:36 < dtm_> batfan: i'd say that's correct.
20:36 < dtm_> i'm also pretty sure that editing isn't easy
20:36 -!- FastLizard4 is now known as FastLizard4|iPad
20:36 < batfan> ya
20:36 < dtm_> not to put... too....fine.... a point... on it....
20:36 < dtm_> :-o
20:37 < dtm_> i've done it on my iphone, but only once or twice, because it's anonymous, because i'm not about to remember my passwords on any important web sites.
20:38 -!- Beria [~Beria@wikimedia/Beria] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
20:38 < dtm_> and i guess there's no wikipedia editing app.
20:38 < dtm_> to store my password and such
20:38 < IDoH> We need an editing app, thouhg
20:38 < dtm_> no doubt
20:38 < IDoH> For Android iOS
20:38 < IDoH> AND iOS
20:38 < dtm_> also the world needs to not use passwords anymore generally.
20:39 < IDoH> How is that going to happen, dtm_?
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20:40 < dtm_> IDoH: well i've seen a couple of different things, like voice and motion
20:40 < dtm_> there's an iOS app i think, which can unlock your lock screen by shaking just the right way. you record your shake. lol
20:40 < dtm_> jumpin on one foot
20:40 < IDoH> dtm_: I have a very mild physical disability that would make that not work.
20:41 < dtm_> IDoH: ok. you can't talk?
20:41 < dtm_> on Mac OS 9, i'd say "my voice is my password" ;)
20:41 < CensoredBiscuit> IDoH: me too
20:41 < IDoH> IDoH: No, but voice recognition is horrid for me.
20:41 < IDoH> dtm_ ^
20:41 < dtm_> IDoH: it doesn't have to interpret what you're saying, though
20:41 < dtm_> you just have to say it the same way
20:41 < dtm_> i mean with the same voice
20:41 < CensoredBiscuit> wait IDoH I think we've had this conversation before
20:42 < dtm_> and then you could fall back on to passwords.
20:42 < dtm_> or, you can authenticate based on trusting the physical possession of the device itself.
20:42 < dtm_> i mean these can all be options
20:42 < dtm_> falling back potentially on passwords.
20:42 < dtm_> but a person can enable or disable any of those
20:43 -!- JKL|Away is now known as JKL1234-
20:43 < IDoH> dtm_: Er, I'm not 100% sure if that will work for me, still, even though I speak very clearly, clearly enough that a stranger with decent hearing and English ability can understand 99% of what I'm saying. I'd just use the passwords.
20:43 < dtm_> IDoH: ok well i dont know why you'd say that .. but.. it could work!
20:43 < IDoH> Maaaybe.
20:43 < dtm_> it knows the characteristics of your voice, see. not interpreting it.
20:44 < dtm_> it doesn't know what you're saying.
20:44 < dtm_> it just knows this is your voice
20:44 < IDoH> Oh, okay, it *might* work, then.
20:44 < dtm_> i mean it might be the timing and inflection and various signature features
20:44 < dtm_> of each micro aspect
20:45 < IDoH> Cool.
20:45 < dtm_> so you have 1) physical possession of your device and 2) your voice
20:45 < IDoH> Ah
20:45 < dtm_> and tie it to just that device
20:45 < dtm_> so that's pretty decent
20:45 < dtm_> so i mean. someone like facebook or google or wikimedia could tie your phone to a web site
20:46 < dtm_> so you sit down at your desktop system and you mess with your phone to log in, and you start workin on wikipedia on your desktop.
20:46 < dtm_> as an auth combo
20:47 < dtm_> kerblammoooo
20:47 < dtm_> i bet it'd work even for horses.
20:47 < IDoH> Ha ha ha!
20:48 < dtm_> you could playback the same clip from Spirit: Stallion of the Cimmaron
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20:52 < mareklug> IDoH so here is an old hit you probably could not avoid not hearing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMCZqKowlzM The Police (with Sing), "Sending an SOS"
20:52 < IDoH> mareklug: heard that before
20:52 < mareklug> I guess if they were to reunite, like The Kinks sing "cherry cola" on "Lola", they could sing: "I send an SMS to you"
20:53 -!- Sky2042 [~Sky2042@wikipedia/Izno] has quit [Quit: Good night, and good luck.]
20:53 < IDoH> They've probably thought of that already.
20:53 < dtm_> :-I
20:54 -!- VunKruz [~hhhh@108-206-230-100.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
20:54 < IDoH> Funny idea, though
20:54 < mareklug> IDoH since the incompetent Tracfone made me have 3 cell phones, I guess I could have 3 secret lovers and they would not know about one another.
20:54 < dtm_> have you guys heard of Qworty? http://www.salon.com/2013/05/21/wikipedia_cleans_up_its_mess/
20:54 < IDoH> You'd be a very busy and unethical man, then.
20:54 < dtm_> i just heard of it.
20:54 < IDoH> I have, dtm_.
20:55 < dtm_> mareklug: lol
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21:10 < ToAruShiroiNeko> mareklug nor would they know about you probably
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21:20 < UnknownNinjaNN2> Does anyone know what Swob's Wikipedia Username is?
21:20 < SigmaWP> soap
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21:26 < dtm_> ToAruShiroiNeko: trololoooolo
21:27 < dtm_> mareklug: you gotta give it up for that one
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21:28 < dtm_> ya gotta, man! ya just gotta!
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21:40 < SuicidalZerg> Look what I won't be buying any time soon! http://torrentfreak.com/arm-launches-hollywood-approved-anti-piracy-processor-130603/
21:40 < SuicidalZerg> Anything with an ARM processor!
21:42 < dtm_> :-o
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21:48 < Koi> Which only goes to demonstrate that you're a malevolent idiot. Eric Corbett 11:08 pm, Today (UTC−5)
21:48 < Koi> I love you too. --Jayron32 11:14 pm, Today (UTC−5)
21:48 < Koi> that is funny.
21:48 < dtm_> guys, can anyone glance at this http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevedenning/2011/02/11/why-the-revolution-has-been-tweeted-the-dragonfly-effect/ and tell me whether it's actually an official article of Forbes? i know that there are weblogs and various other less-than-officially-editorially-overseen subsections of major RSes, and i just wanted to ensure that this is particular article is, in fact an RS
21:48 < dtm_> Koi: true. true.
21:49 < dtm_> at this particular juncture, the OTRS flowchart would direct Jayron32 to "shower them in wikilove"
21:49 < Koi> dtm_: looks like a blog section.
21:49 < dtm_> Koi: how do we know that?
21:49 < dtm_> the author is just called "Contributor"
21:49 < Koi> dtm_: /sites/stevedenning for one.
21:50 < Koi> that means it's a subsite of forbes.
21:50 < dtm_> ok.
21:50 < D_> Well, their top story on their front page also leads to a /sites/ URL
21:50 < dtm_> weird.
21:50 < dtm_> :-o
21:50 < Koi> really?
21:50 < Koi> did they change that?
21:50 < D_> but that author is actually labeled "Forbes Staff"
21:50 < dtm_> sites! SITES, EVERYWHERE
21:50 < dtm_> it's a good interview.
21:50 < Koi> a while back they used to only use /sites/ for their individual stiff
21:50 < Koi> INTERVIEW NOT INDEPENDENT. KOI DISAPPROVE.
21:51 < dtm_> is it possible that an RS can have a subsection which is categorically not an RS? like a weblog subsection?
21:51 < D_> Maybe they're trying to be cloudsocial, I dunno
21:51 < dtm_> D_: so are we calling this url an RS?
21:51 < D_> I honestly can't tell
21:51 < dtm_> lol!
21:51 * dtm_ drowns it to see if it's a witch
21:52 < D_> "The author is a Forbes contributor. The opinions expressed are those of the writer."
21:52 < dtm_> where'd you see that
21:52 < D_> I guess Forbes disavows this article
21:52 < D_> Below the blurb about the author
21:52 < dtm_> oh i see.
21:52 < D_> on the right side
21:52 < dtm_> lol!
21:52 < D_> For what it's worth, staff writers don't get that disclaimer
21:53 < dtm_> okay so it's a secondary source. and i say it's good. but it's not an RS? but if i had 3+ substantial RSes, i can quote it and cite it as a cherry on top.
21:53 < dtm_> amirite
21:54 < dtm_> it has a good description or synopsis of the book.
21:54 < dtm_> it's not something that i'm relying heavily upon.
21:54 < dtm_> and i would cite it as "this guy said this about it"
21:55 < D_> The Forbes application form for becoming a contributor is a Google Docs form
21:55 < D_> I am now convinced that their website is ran about as well as the Soviet Union c. 1991
22:00 < dtm_> :-I
22:00 < SigmaWP> :\
22:00 < SigmaWP> ok, fine...
22:00 < SigmaWP> I'll allow it
22:00 < dtm_> wow. well, i've read two very well written articles on it though ;) lol
22:00 < dtm_> the right good gentleman Sigma from WP has allowed it!
22:01 < dtm_> can i get an a-MENNNNNN-ahhhh?!
22:01 < D_> I think SigmaWP was talking about my Soviet Union analogy
22:01 < dtm_> cool
22:01 < D_> At least I'd expect that
22:01 < dtm_> sounds good. we'll do that.
22:01 < D_> But hey, you can still use your source
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22:11 < UnknownNinjaNN2> Did I ask this right? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Edit_conflict#Check_for_identical_edits.3F
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22:13 < UnknownNinjaNN2> Did I do this correctly? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Edit_conflict#Check_for_identical_edits.3F
22:14 < Jasper_Deng> it shouldn't trigger an edit conflict
22:15 < UnknownNinjaNN2> It does.
22:15 < D_> I didn't know you can edit conflict with yourself
22:15 < D_> but I guess it'd make sense for it to tell you
22:15 < UnknownNinjaNN2> The names on the conflicts are the same. Plus, I check and see my edit in the article/talk page.
22:16 < D_> Exactly identical edits shouldn't conflict, though
22:17 < UnknownNinjaNN2> Yeah, but it is my writing, sig, etc.
22:18 < UnknownNinjaNN2> D_:they should put some kind of check in to prevent this.
22:20 < UnknownNinjaNN2> So, did I ask in the right place?
22:20 -!- basile is now known as guillom
22:21 < UnknownNinjaNN2> Hello?
22:21 -!- FastLizard4|iPad is now known as FastLizard4
22:22 < UnknownNinjaNN2> Hello, FastLizard4.
22:22 < D_> Uh, you could try [[WP:VPT]] if you really wanted
22:23 < FastLizard4> UnknownNinjaNN2: Hi
22:24 < UnknownNinjaNN2> What is WP:VPT?
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22:27 < UnknownNinjaNN2> What have you said since my last post?
22:29 -!- LtNOWIS [~Simon@pool-173-66-20-178.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
22:30 < UnknownNinjaNN2> Hello LtNOWIS .
22:30 < LtNOWIS> hi
22:30 < UnknownNinjaNN2> Can I help you?
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22:31 < UnknownNinjaNN2> That was a strange username.
22:32 < UnknownNinjaNN2> LtNOWIS: Can I help you?
22:32 < FastLizard4> UnknownNinjaNN2: Not everyone comes in this channel to get help
22:32 < LtNOWIS> No, I'm just here to hang out
22:32 < FastLizard4> This is also a social channel\
22:32 < LtNOWIS> I'm moer of a helper anyways
22:32 < LtNOWIS> at least in my own mind
22:32 < FastLizard4> So it's best to wait for people to ask for help instead of offering :)
22:32 < UnknownNinjaNN2> Anybody want to discuss Nintendo Nightmare?
22:34 -!- Jasper_Deng is now known as Jasper_Deng_away
22:34 < UnknownNinjaNN2> How do you join other channels FastLizard4 ?
22:35 < Jasper_Deng_away> UnknownNinjaNN2: /join <channel name>
22:35 < UnknownNinjaNN2> Thanks.
22:35 * Jasper_Deng_away thinks you should get an IRC client, search that up on Wikipedia
22:35 < UnknownNinjaNN2> join #nintendo
22:36 < closedmouth> /join
22:36 -!- hyp3nitis [~ogk3v@cpe-174-096-234-039.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #wikipedia-en
22:37 -!- funnyfarm299 [~funnyfarm@adsl-184-38-29-167.msy.bellsouth.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
22:37 -!- funnyfarm299 [~funnyfarm@adsl-184-38-29-167.msy.bellsouth.net] has quit [Changing host]
22:37 -!- funnyfarm299 [~funnyfarm@wikipedia/Funnyfarmofdoom] has joined #wikipedia-en
22:37 < funnyfarm299> Hey guys.
22:37 -!- hyp3nitis [~ogk3v@cpe-174-096-234-039.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit]
22:37 < mareklug> UnknownNinjaNN2 is just advertising the #nintendo, closedmouth
22:37 < dtm_> D_: it looks like this one is legit, because it has a date on it, and no funny business afaict http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/10/04/101004fa_fact_gladwell?currentPage=all
22:38 -!- hyp3nitis [~ogk3v@cpe-174-096-234-039.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #wikipedia-en
22:38 < D_> I'd say so
22:38 < D_> Also says that the author is a staff writer
22:38 < dtm_> D_: here i was all frothy when i had seen forbes.com >:/
22:38 < dtm_> my RS options are limited.
22:39 < mareklug> $23.18 - $12.82 = the difference I made for myself by manually reconfiguring my cheapass AT&T landline service on their website instead of what they thought was the cheapass service.
22:40 < UnknownNinjaNN2> Mareklug: Actually, I was trying to move there so I could a game I am making. Problem is that nobody's there
22:40 < mareklug> UnknownNinjaNN2 choose a more popular trivial pursuit, such as girls.
22:41 < UnknownNinjaNN2> Mareklug: I can discuss what I want to discuss. There is no reason to be rude about it.
22:41 -!- hyp3nitis [~ogk3v@cpe-174-096-234-039.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit]
22:42 < mareklug> UnknownNinjaNN2 who is being rude about anything? I kindly suggested a more befitting pursuit, one which will abound in company.
22:42 -!- hyp3nitis [~ogk3v@cpe-174-096-234-039.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #wikipedia-en
22:42 -!- VunKruz [~hhhh@108-206-230-100.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
22:42 -!- hyp3nitis [~ogk3v@cpe-174-096-234-039.carolina.res.rr.com] has left #wikipedia-en []
22:43 < UnknownNinjaNN2> Oh, I thought you were saying that I should not discuss it at all and that is dumb or something.
22:43 < UnknownNinjaNN2> Or at least I inferred that.
22:43 < mareklug> UnknownNinjaNN2 clearly you will benefit from more socializing. And girls are far more difficult to get right than a kind straightforward pursuit advice.
22:43 -!- hyp3nitis [~ogk3v@cpe-174-096-234-039.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #wikipedia-en
22:43 < UnknownNinjaNN2> *and that it is dumb or something
22:45 < UnknownNinjaNN2> Look, I came here to discuss a project I am working on. What does that have to do with anything else? How do you know what I do? For all you know I socialize a lot.
22:47 < UnknownNinjaNN2> Mareklug: where did you go?
22:47 < D_> Clearly to socialize
22:48 < D_> with girls
22:48 < Prodego> UnknownNinjaNN2: in answer to your originial question
22:48 < Prodego> UnknownNinjaNN2: identical edits do not generate edit conflicts
22:48 < mareklug> Yes, D_ is on the money. I went to socialize with girls.
22:48 < tommorris> I'm trying to find the longest article title. I've found the longest redirect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Life_and_Strange_Surprizing_Adventures_of_Robinson_Crusoe,_of_York,_Mariner:_Who_lived_Eight_and_Twenty_Years,_all_alone_in_an_un-inhabited_Island_on_the_Coast_of_America,_near_the_Mouth_of_the_Great_River_of_Oroonoque;_Having_been_cast_on_Shore_by
22:48 < Prodego> UnknownNinjaNN2: the reason you may get one when you save your edits twice is because of your signature, which changes after saving from ~~~~ to [[User:...
22:48 < Prodego> UnknownNinjaNN2: it is not easy to "fix" that
22:49 -!- hyp3nitis [~ogk3v@cpe-174-096-234-039.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ThrashIRC v2.9 sic populo comunicated]
22:49 < UnknownNinjaNN2> Really?
22:49 < Prodego> yes really
22:49 < tommorris> actually, here's the article with the longest title:
22:49 < tommorris> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lopado%C2%ADtemacho%C2%ADselacho%C2%ADgaleo%C2%ADkranio%C2%ADleipsano%C2%ADdrim%C2%ADhypo%C2%ADtrimmato%C2%ADsilphio%C2%ADparao%C2%ADmelito%C2%ADkatakechy%C2%ADmeno%C2%ADkichl%C2%ADepi%C2%ADkossypho%C2%ADphatto%C2%ADperister%C2%ADalektryon%C2%ADopte%C2%ADkephallio%C2%ADkigklo%C2%ADpeleio%C2%ADlagoio%C2%ADsiraio%C2%ADbaphe%C2%ADtragano%C2%ADpterygon
22:50 < UnknownNinjaNN2> If (ipconflictone!=ipconflicttwo)
22:50 < UnknownNinjaNN2> I fixed it.
22:50 < Prodego> UnknownNinjaNN2: mediawiki does not substitute until after the page is saved
22:50 < funnyfarm299> How sad is it the wifi at my timeshare is slower than LTE?
22:50 < dtm_> UnknownNinjaNN2: to answer your questions, your game project is what has nothing to do with anything, here. and you are the one who is rudely belligerent. that is all!
22:50 < dtm_> HTH
22:50 < D_> tommorris: Someone should update http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_records#Titles
22:50 < Prodego> UnknownNinjaNN2: if you would like to patch in the behavior you have mentioned, feel free to submit code at bugzilla.wikimedia.org
22:51 < dtm_> though mareklug's response was far, far, *far* smoother. *whoosh*
22:51 < D_> Oh wait, it's already there
22:51 < funnyfarm299> Is marek on?
22:51 < mareklug> am I on? -- Martha and the Muffins
22:52 < dtm_> mareklug: testing. TESTING. type harder please
22:52 -!- ihaveamac [~ihaveamac@unaffiliated/ihaveamac] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:52 < UnknownNinjaNN2> Dtm_ I asked if people wish to discuss it. A no is just fine!
22:52 < funnyfarm299> Were you the one asking about a tablet?
22:52 < mareklug> "harder." is a trademarked utterance of Mr. closedmouth. I dare not tread on his marek.
22:52 -!- Truffles [~truffles@a91-156-186-193.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #wikipedia-en
22:52 < dtm_> UnknownNinjaNN2: it would be nice if that was true. you got quite a number of very fine no's.
22:53 -!- Truffles is now known as Guest46880
22:53 < dtm_> UnknownNinjaNN2: i'm sure there are channels for it here , if it's free software.
22:54 < funnyfarm299> Marek, were you the one asking about a wacom tablet?
22:54 < UnknownNinjaNN2> Dtm_ where are these no's?
22:54 < UnknownNinjaNN2> Crowds change. That was earlier.
22:54 -!- Mr-ex777 [~chatzilla@202.82.11.104] has joined #wikipedia-en
22:55 < UnknownNinjaNN2> And I doubt there are channels, but feel free to waste your time looking.
22:56 < FastLizard4> There appears to be a ##nintendo
22:57 < funnyfarm299> I love #wikipedia-en. We are MORE than willing to look for things.
22:57 < UnknownNinjaNN2> A new one?
22:57 < FastLizard4> Various *gaming channels
22:57 < FastLizard4> Juse use ALIS and search for them
22:57 -!- martijnHH [~MartijnH@h104217.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #wikipedia-en
22:57 -!- martijnHH [~MartijnH@h104217.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Changing host]
22:57 -!- martijnHH [~MartijnH@wikipedia/Martijn-Hoekstra] has joined #wikipedia-en
22:57 < FastLizard4> /msg ALIS HELP
22:57 < UnknownNinjaNN2> ???
22:58 < funnyfarm299> Christ, there's 230 in the reddit sub.
22:59 < UnknownNinjaNN2> So, we are searching for the longest link?
22:59 < FastLizard4> funnyfarm299: Which one? :P
22:59 < funnyfarm299> I meant #reddit
22:59 < FastLizard4> Oh
22:59 < FastLizard4> Heh
23:00 < UnknownNinjaNN2> I don't know what that is, but it sounds backed up!
23:00 < funnyfarm299> I'm surprised that the java channel isnt in the top 10
23:00 < funnyfarm299> Then again, I hate java.
23:00 < funnyfarm299> SO MANY CLASSES
23:00 -!- c [~charitwo@defocus/o-O] has joined #wikipedia-en
23:01 < UnknownNinjaNN2> Funnyfarm299: try game maker.
23:01 < Firefly67> UnknownNinjaNN2: See http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming - 3 million people discussing video games
23:02 -!- martijnHH [~MartijnH@wikipedia/Martijn-Hoekstra] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
23:02 -!- Prodego [~Prodego@wikipedia/Prodego] has quit [Quit: From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia]
23:02 < funnyfarm299> Firefly, good point. There's far too many subreddits for one lifetime.
23:04 -!- UnknownNinjaNN2_ [638cc8a0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.99.140.200.160] has joined #wikipedia-en
23:05 < UnknownNinjaNN2_> Nope on Reddit. I prefer IRC
23:05 < mareklug> dtm_ ok, on a noncomputing front, or maybe it still is the war on computing, except in a different guis, the subject being propagating the cause of micropayments...
23:05 -!- UnknownNinjaNN2 [638cc8a0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.99.140.200.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
23:06 < UnknownNinjaNN2_> How did I just quit?
23:06 < funnyfarm299> Two sessions.
23:06 < funnyfarm299> You have an underscore.
23:06 < Firefly67> Why do you prefer IRC?
23:07 -!- harej [~quassel@wikipedia/MessedRocker] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.]
23:07 < UnknownNinjaNN2_> I just like the way it is stuctured. Is there a popular nintendo subject channel?
23:08 < mareklug> dtm_ well, it so happens that ASGP has a business account at a well-known chain gang bank. And they told me: we can't give you free banking, even though you are a nonprofit, but we can make it free, if you just use the account's debit card 5 times in a billing cycle. And they invariably, no matter who I talk to, give this encouragement, verbatim: "It does not have to be a large purchase, it could be just a stick of gum. But 5 times in a
23:08 < mareklug> billing cycle, and you avoid the $12 service fee." Ok, so I got tired of amassing sticks of gum at $0.38 at the ExxonMobil station and $0.75 (with tax include) at Walgreen's
23:08 < mareklug> and I found this Pennies in Action Fund where it just so happens you can donate as little as a penny -- by PayPal, of all things. So I did.
23:09 * Firefly67 likes reddit better.
23:09 < UnknownNinjaNN2_> *likes IRC better
23:09 < closedmouth> reddit sucks
23:09 < Firefly67> What is steam? Is that a chatroom?
23:10 -!- BadDesign [~cpp@unaffiliated/baddesign] has joined #wikipedia-en
23:10 < koishi> you can't compare reddit with irc
23:10 < koishi> just like you can't compare a message board with irc
23:10 < koishi> because that's what reddit is
23:10 < Firefly67> UnknownNinjaNN2_ : type /me likes IRC better
23:10 < UnknownNinjaNN2_> Closedmouth: thanks for the support. :)
23:10 * UnknownNinjaNN2_ likes IRC better
23:11 < koishi> you go irc because it's realtime and because there's less "red tape"
23:11 < koishi> (usually)
23:11 -!- teshi|away [~teshiron@wikipedia/Darkwind] has joined #wikipedia-en
23:11 -!- teshi|away is now known as teshiron
23:11 < mareklug> UnknownNinjaNN2_ you realize that on irc you are open for real time socializing snipes
23:12 < Firefly67> But if people are aggressive it is harder to deal with it in real time on IRC than it is to deal with it on reddit where you have a time lag to respond.
23:12 < Firefly67> or to not respond
23:12 < dtm_> mareklug: very well.
23:12 < koishi> i
23:12 < koishi> oops
23:12 < closedmouth> hate apostrophes?
23:12 < koishi> apparently
23:12 < koishi> "!
23:13 < UnknownNinjaNN2_> Mareklug: what are they gonna do? Rob me of a few game ideas?
23:13 < dtm_> irc is cool and reddit is cool. just don't go to #reddit. don't cross the streams!!
23:13 < closedmouth> reddit is the worst thing to happen to the internet since AOL
23:13 < dtm_> closedmouth: :-ooooooooo
23:13 < koishi> >aol
23:13 < koishi> whoa
23:13 * Firefly67 jumps to reddit's defense
23:13 < mareklug> dtm I am pushing to to the point of absurdity, of course, but I think I am right on this. The idea being, PayPal is a badass way to do micropayments, because they charge you out the ass for transcactions. So I am forcing the issue, as it were -- we need more micropayment options in the economy that are not saddled by bankers' fees.
23:13 < dtm_> closedmouth: worse than aol? them's.... them's fightin words, son.
23:13 < dtm_> lol
23:13 * Firefly67 admonishes closedmouth
23:13 < UnknownNinjaNN2_> Dtm_ what do mean by streams?
23:14 < mareklug> UnknownNinjaNN2_ why are you so defensive?
23:14 < dtm_> UnknownNinjaNN2_: Ghostbusters reference
23:14 < koishi> idk aol was the only reason '90s internet got anywhere
23:14 < dtm_> UnknownNinjaNN2_: imagine if all the energy of the universe went into this Twinkie.
23:14 < dtm_> and all of the molecules would simultaneously explode.
23:14 < dtm_> Or something.
23:15 < mareklug> dtm_ is this one of those old original twikies, or one of the new resurrected ones?
23:15 < dtm_> koishi: nnnnnnnnnope.
23:15 < mareklug> twinkies *
23:15 < dtm_> mareklug: i haven't seen the new ones! are they gluten free?
23:15 < UnknownNinjaNN2_> Please stop using my name. It messes my scrolling up. I can't even read the messages right now!
23:15 < koishi> dtm_: tell me more about aol then
23:15 < koishi> and not new aol plz
23:15 < koishi> idk when exactly that starts tho
23:15 < koishi> ...2003?
23:16 < mareklug> dtm why would something inherently wheat-based by gluten free? btw, did I tell you (no, it was Soap/Swob) that "gluty" in Polish means "snot"?
23:16 < dtm_> holy crap i bet there's everything twinkie related, on wikipedia. everything there ever was to know, ever!!
23:16 < dtm_> mareklug: wait. does it have *food* in it?
23:16 < closedmouth> koishi: yeah, got anywhere with the dumb masses
23:16 < koishi> rightg
23:16 < koishi> *-g
23:16 < koishi> dumb masses = people
23:16 < UnknownNinjaNN2_> Mareklug: I am not. It just sounds that way.
23:16 < koishi> people = your gods
23:16 < koishi> :(
23:16 < mareklug> twinkies do have carbohydrates in them, in addition to patented chemistry
23:16 < dtm_> mareklug: i didn't know that. btw, wanna translate [[Mitch Markovich]] to polish?
23:17 < mareklug> dtm_ not really. they are very snooty over at Pl wiki over my rusty Polish in the nuances of style division… they have made me effectively not write any more articles.
23:17 < mareklug> I just gnome there.
23:17 < Firefly67> Can I tell a Polish joke?
23:17 < dtm_> koishi: we were sitting here counting down the days until the arrival of AOL. it was independent ISPs and universities that built the internet as we know it, one dialup account and student account at a time! <3
23:17 < mareklug> Firefly67 how many fireflies does it take to light up a Pole?
23:17 -!- Guest46880 [~truffles@a91-156-186-193.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: ThrashIRC v2.9 sic populo comunicated]
23:17 < koishi> uhuh :(
23:18 < dtm_> utterly despite AOL. we provided the value proposition for the sales of AOL accounts. we were what they were accessing.
23:18 < koishi> where are your universities now :(((
23:18 < UnknownNinjaNN2_> Mareklug: one
23:18 < koishi> utterly irrelevant :((((((((
23:18 < dtm_> koishi: they're on internet2 lol
23:18 < dtm_> SAFE!
23:18 < koishi> and they were the only reason you were relevant in the slightest :(((((((((((((((((((((
23:18 < dtm_> koishi: wut. i just said that.
23:19 < closedmouth> koishi: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September
23:19 < dtm_> closedmouth: hahaaaaaa
23:19 < dtm_> gg
23:19 < koishi> closedmouth: :(
23:19 < koishi> YOUR NEW GODS
23:19 < UnknownNinjaNN2_> Mareklug: what is gnoming?
23:20 < closedmouth> took me ages to dredge the name of that out of my faulty memory
23:20 < koishi> dtm_: right. i'm just making it /very/ clear what that /really/ means :(
23:20 < koishi> too much :( but hey
23:20 < dtm_> :-.
23:21 < UnknownNinjaNN2_> Also, call me Ninja. That way my scroll bar does not go all wacky.
23:21 < mareklug> UnknownNinjaNN2_ http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=gnoming I like this definition a lot: "Verb - The act of recklessly (under the influence of something illicit or mind altering) going around and stealing lawn gnomes for the sake of a collection purpose. IT is definately fun to take one of your favourite gnomes with you on vacation and take pictures of that gnome from different locations in the world and send it by postcard to
23:21 < mareklug> the original owner." Have you seen the movie "Amelié"? She stole her father's gnome, and that started the meme.
23:21 < koishi> mareklug: why did i think of harry potter from that
23:21 < koishi> totally would work for some random crazy character
23:22 < UnknownNinjaNN2_> Mareklug: what does that all have to do with polish wikipedia?
23:23 < mareklug> UnknownNinjaNN2_ but seriously, http://www.wikipatterns.com/display/wikipatterns/WikiGnome
23:23 < dtm_> closedmouth: that article is full of <REF name=... i've never seen markup in caps, since way old HTML! <3 and that date is calculated! excellent article.
23:24 < koishi> oh
23:24 < koishi> guess that makes me a gnome then
23:24 < koishi> not that this really matters
23:24 < dtm_> koishi: are you a wikignome
23:25 -!- eym [43a0e72f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.160.231.47] has joined #wikipedia-en
23:25 < UnknownNinjaNN2_> I am starting to wonder what I am......
23:26 < dtm_> Heavy.
23:26 < Firefly67> There are a couple of people on -help looking for help. Shall I direct them here?
23:26 < mareklug> dtm https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/105918205/AmazingGraceInDesignCS4OpensPageMaker6Documents.png did you notice how InDesign did not mess up anything in the book? https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/105918205/AmazingGraceInDesignCS4OpensPageMaker6Documents.png
23:26 < UnknownNinjaNN2_> Yeah!!!!
23:26 < dtm_> Firefly67: why would you do that?
23:26 < UnknownNinjaNN2_> Send them over. It will be fun!
23:26 < Firefly67> There is no one responding to them on that channel and I don't know the answer to their questions.
23:26 < eym> !helper Hi. My page was nominated for speedy deletion but I am not sure why. I think I need to submit it for approval but I don't know how. Can someone help me with this. This is the link to the page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Students_Advocating_For_Equity
23:27 < mareklug> Firefly67 there is a firewall in place that keeps them there.
23:27 < UnknownNinjaNN2_> Besides, nobody is at the other channel.
23:27 < dtm_> mareklug: flajslkdghalsdjfglashdlajsfdlololo
23:28 < mareklug> eym have some sense of propriety. Why the hell would you put an article about some club at some college on a world-scope encyclopedia?
23:28 < UnknownNinjaNN2_> Eym: someone should move it to your sandbox. Could dtm_ do that?
23:29 < funnyfarm299> Hold up guys. I'm looking at it now.
23:30 < funnyfarm299> It looks like there might already be a page in the AfC process
23:30 < UnknownNinjaNN2_> Mareklug: that is like saying my Nintendo Nightmare article was a waste of time. It is not, because I like to write about the subject.
23:31 < Firefly67> Who is Jayron32?
23:31 < UnknownNinjaNN2_> Where is that mentioned?
23:31 -!- Guerillero [~Gueriller@wikipedia/Guerillero] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:31 < mareklug> UnknownNinjaNN2_ kindly write for your own blog.
23:31 < eym> mareklug.... rude.
23:31 -!- Guerillero [~Gueriller@209.243.37.82] has joined #wikipedia-en
23:31 -!- Guerillero [~Gueriller@209.243.37.82] has quit [Changing host]
23:31 -!- Guerillero [~Gueriller@wikipedia/Guerillero] has joined #wikipedia-en
23:31 < mareklug> UnknownNinjaNN2_ no one will delete a thing, I promise!
23:32 < ToAruShiroiNeko> mareklug unless its child pornography
23:32 < Firefly67> No, Jayron took care of the deletion stuff for eym.
23:32 < funnyfarm299> Who IS jayron?
23:32 < mareklug> eym what exactly is rude about telling you the facts of life in spades? I mean, for heaven's sake, just because the club is important to YOU, does not make it notable to the world.
23:32 < Firefly67> eym, come back in the morning. More people like Huon etc. will be there, they are polite and helpful.
23:33 < funnyfarm299> because he needs to clean up after himself
23:33 < UnknownNinjaNN2_> Mareklug: he was reffering to your comment at me.
23:33 -!- TeeTylerToe [~31415@unaffiliated/teetylertoe] has joined #wikipedia-en
23:33 < dtm_> i dont get why ToAruShiroiNeko is so into child pornography. try cutting down sometime! it's simply unencyclopedic!
23:34 -!- Grashoofd [~chatzilla@D97847F5.cm-3-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #wikipedia-en
23:34 < dtm_> ToAruShiroiNeko: as for me and my house, we don't do or say or read *anything* that isn't in wikipedia.
23:34 < eym> mareklug hahahahahahaha
23:34 < ToAruShiroiNeko> point is even blogs have rules everyone follow
23:34 < mareklug> UnknownNinjaNN2_ if so, that is even more off kilter. You justify your article by saying that you like to write. Well, fine, wrote on your own blog, kindly. How could that be construed as rude? I mean, if you want me to be rude -- strictly for the purposes of illustration -- I shall oblige forthwith.
23:34 < TeeTylerToe> you can't trust anything on wikipedia. Fact. I read it on wikipedia.
23:34 < ToAruShiroiNeko> wikipedia of course has quality control on content
23:35 < UnknownNinjaNN2_> ToAruShiroiNeko: you should be ashamed of yourself!
23:35 < ToAruShiroiNeko> I should? That implies I have shame of any kind.
23:36 < TeeTylerToe> cats have no shame. Particularly japanese cats
23:36 < koishi> wikipedia doesn't really have quality control, heh
23:36 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Jokes aside, if you want to write as you see fit, start your own website but even then you need to obey laws governing your content.
23:36 < eym> Firefly67 Thank you for being patient and helpful. I appreciate it.
23:36 < UnknownNinjaNN2_> ToAruShiroiNeko are you a cat?
23:36 < koishi> what they have is a certain idea that all must follow
23:36 < koishi> that's one way of doing it, but...
23:37 < TeeTylerToe> well one of the big tenents of wp is that it's not censored except when it is
23:37 < Firefly67> NP eym, are you in the US?
23:37 < UnknownNinjaNN2_> Mareklug: I don't find you rude. *he* does.
23:37 < eym> Firefly67 yes I am
23:38 < mareklug> UnknownNinjaNN2_ well, then. Thank heaven for small favors. We now have to work on HIM to effect attitude adjustment.
23:38 < UnknownNinjaNN2_> Yeah, Eym thinks you are rude.
23:38 < mareklug> UnknownNinjaNN2_ there is no reason to repeat the unneccessary.
23:38 < UnknownNinjaNN2_> Not sure why?
23:39 < dtm_> < TeeTylerToe> you can't trust anything on wikipedia. Fact. I read it on wikipedia. <-- and who is telling you *that*?! your brain. COI??
23:40 < UnknownNinjaNN2_> NOTICE: PLEASE STOP USING THIS USERS FULL NAME. IT MESSES UP HIS BROWSER. THIS IS IN CAPS SO PEOPLE SEE IT THIS TIME.
23:40 < ToAruShiroiNeko> dtm_ I am saying that
23:40 < ToAruShiroiNeko> wikipedia is also saying that
23:40 < D_> UnknownNinjaNN2_: Sorry, what?
23:40 < ToAruShiroiNeko> wikipedia is NOT a reliable source
23:40 < mareklug> ToAruShiroiNeko: Hodgkins, IL, United States 06/03/2013 7:50 P.M Arrival Scan
23:41 < dtm_> ToAruShiroiNeko: who's telling you to say that?!! your brain. COI????!
23:41 < TeeTylerToe> Wikipedia is simply less unreliable than many other "reliable" sources
23:41 < ToAruShiroiNeko> hodgkins airport?
23:41 < UnknownNinjaNN2_> D_: is that supposed to be funny? I don't find it funny!
23:41 < dtm_> wikipedia is the worst system we have today. except all the other systems.
23:41 < ToAruShiroiNeko> welcome to ilinois?
23:41 < koishi> teetylertoe: that's the weird thing
23:41 < D_> dtm_: Didn't Gödel have a theorem about this?
23:41 < mareklug> there is no airport in hodgkins, unless you mean someone's Apple Airport.
23:42 < eym> As for mareklug, Wikipedia is attempting to be a collection of all knowledge. You do not get to decide which and whose knowledge is acceptable. mareklug I hope you find better things to do with your time. Thank you to those who are here to help. Goodnight.
23:42 < ToAruShiroiNeko> mareklug OH you ment your cables :D
23:42 < koishi> all the non-sourced stuff that gets into articles, plus wikipedia's general guidelines on how to write, ends up making it overall better most sources
23:42 < Firefly67> eym, come back in the morning
23:42 < dtm_> D_: i dont know; i'd have to look it up on wikipedia if it's worth knowing
23:42 < mareklug> eym why don't you, young one, read up on what Wikipedia is not, and on other related topics, such as notability.
23:42 < koishi> s/all/some
23:42 -!- eym [43a0e72f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.160.231.47] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
23:42 < Firefly67> eym, go to -help in the morning, people are polite and civil, won't be rude to you and will help you
23:43 < UnknownNinjaNN2_> Koishi ?
23:43 < mareklug> Firefly67 now, YOUR attempt to shortcircuit this instruction of mine is rude.
23:43 < dtm_> mareklug: you. sir. have skillfully achieved the award of ONE internet tonight. well done, sir. WELL DONE.
23:43 < ToAruShiroiNeko> dtm_ you mean achievement unlocked?
23:43 < mareklug> dtm kind thank yous, sir.
23:43 < dtm_> ToAruShiroiNeko: that is precisely what i mean to say
23:43 < UnknownNinjaNN2_> Dtm_ what acievement is that?
23:44 < dtm_> ToAruShiroiNeko: *precisely*. 1up 1up 1up
23:44 < dtm_> mareklug is one smooth operator.
23:44 < dtm_> and this, ladies and gentlemen, is how irc is done.
23:44 * ToAruShiroiNeko wants to listen to smooth criminal now
23:44 * dtm_ golf clap
23:44 < dtm_> ToAruShiroiNeko: To YouTube(tm)!!!
23:45 * ToAruShiroiNeko imagines mareklug copying MJ's dance
23:45 < dtm_> ToAruShiroiNeko: MJ or AAF?
23:45 < dtm_> ToAruShiroiNeko: or a TAS of Moonwalker on Genesis?
23:45 * UnknownNinjaNN2_ is still waiting for an IRC channel to discuss Nintendo Nightmare
23:45 < ToAruShiroiNeko> MJ forever
23:45 < mareklug> ToAruShiroiNeko the only entertainment figure I shall copy any dances from is my Avril Lavigne.
23:45 < dtm_> ToAruShiroiNeko: hey what's the score in turkey? who's winning? i just had turkey for dinner, which lost, to me. but. are you updating wikipedia with your big brane?
23:46 < funnyfarm299> I saw some pretty good street dancers this weejend
23:46 -!- martijnHH [~MartijnH@92.64.31.85] has joined #wikipedia-en
23:46 -!- martijnHH [~MartijnH@92.64.31.85] has quit [Changing host]
23:46 -!- martijnHH [~MartijnH@wikipedia/Martijn-Hoekstra] has joined #wikipedia-en
23:46 < dtm_> some ambiguitry could be present
23:46 < dtm_> disambig required in my particular situation
23:46 < ToAruShiroiNeko> dtm_ probably Iran is winning
23:46 < UnknownNinjaNN2_> MartijnHH what is HH?
23:46 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Syria's Assad too
23:47 < dtm_> ToAruShiroiNeko: k
23:47 < UnknownNinjaNN2_> Is everyone ignoring me?
23:47 < Firefly67> UnknownNinjaNN2_ : create your own channel for nintendo
23:47 < dtm_> Lord willin.
23:48 < ToAruShiroiNeko> I cannot fathom the real world consequences if the conflict is sustained.
23:48 < dtm_> ToAruShiroiNeko: :\
23:48 < dtm_> ToAruShiroiNeko: i am touched at how much you care
23:48 < ToAruShiroiNeko> white house doesnt comment on protests three times normally
23:48 < dtm_> ToAruShiroiNeko: sincerely.
23:48 < Firefly67> UnknownNinja go to #nintendo. There are 3 people there
23:48 < mareklug> ToAruShiroiNeko I can -- a violent revolution in turkey, which is then aborted by the military who make it for a typical Turkish military dictatorship.
23:48 < dtm_> ToAruShiroiNeko: i told my significant other about it today because of what you've told me
23:48 < ToAruShiroiNeko> mareklug the millitary would never do that.
23:49 < TeeTylerToe> Joining #Nintendo makes your body property of nintendo corporation
23:49 < mareklug> ToAruShiroiNeko yes, Hodgkins, IL is a major distribution center and a waypoint for UPS logistics.
23:52 < ToAruShiroiNeko> mareklug why would the millitary try to protect people (politicians) that actively try to destroy them?
23:52 -!- Jamesofur is now known as Jamesofur|away
23:52 < TeeTylerToe> why would governments harm their citizens?
23:52 -!- UnknownNinjaNN2_ is now known as NNRemaker
23:53 < dtm_> :-I
23:53 < NNRemaker> Because the government is crazy or greedy or both.
23:54 < ToAruShiroiNeko> NNRemaker it is probably all in the name of decency
23:56 < NNRemaker> Yep, pride was the third one I was trying to think of.
23:56 < mareklug> ToAruShiroiNeko if the violent revolution does happen, and results in major lawlessness and violence, yes, of course the military will step in.
23:57 < ToAruShiroiNeko> mareklug last time they did that millitary was put on trial for having the audacity of doing that
23:57 < NNRemaker> Mareklug: BUT they should try not to hurt people if possible.
23:58 < mareklug> you and I both know that the military in Turkey styles itself as the protector of the aspirations of Attaturk for a westernized democracy
23:58 < ToAruShiroiNeko> there was a KGB&CIA induced civil anarchy back then
23:58 < ToAruShiroiNeko> mareklug not anymore
23:58 < ToAruShiroiNeko> such commanders had been jailed for years now
23:58 -!- NNRemaker [638cc8a0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.99.140.200.160] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
23:59 < ToAruShiroiNeko> millitary feels betrayed by the people for abandoning them to jailtime
23:59 -!- Mr-ex777 is now known as DogTheColorful
--- Log closed Tue Jun 04 00:00:18 2013
